VIDEO Proof: 2012 Camaro ZL1 Takes on Nurburgring in 7:41.27

[tooslow]

Awesome performance on the 'Ring, for sure, but putting up that time does nothing to change my mind as to whether or not I would actually buy one. I'm never going to run the car on any track, let alone one in Germany. Fact is, MOST ZL1's will simply be garage queens and rarely driven, let alone driven aggressively.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Fact is, MOST ZL1's will simply be garage queens and rarely driven, let alone driven aggressively.

You know, for a fact, that most ZL1s will simply be garage queens and rarely driven how?

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

You know, for a fact, that most ZL1s will simply be garage queens and rarely driven how?

By looking at what's happened with other limited production vehicles by GM and other auto makers. For every enthusiast on this site that will drive/track their ZL1, I'd bet there are 20 or more that will only hit the street on nice days and whose owners will brag about how few miles they have on the odometer or how it's never seen rain.

I did say most, not all.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

By looking at what's happened with other limited production vehicles by GM and other auto makers. For every enthusiast on this site that will drive/track their ZL1, I'd bet there are 20 or more that will only hit the street on nice days and whose owners will brag about how few miles they have on the odometer or how it's never seen rain.

I did say most, not all.

Okay, so it's your opinion that most ZL1s will be rarely driven.

Also, just because a ZL1 isn't driven in the rain doesn't mean that it won't be driven often and driven aggressively.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

I believe the circle represents 1G of acceleration. The location of the dot represents the sum of acceleration at that moment in time. This may seem to indicate the grip limit of the tires but only by coincidence. If the dot is straight up or down there is no lateral acceleration. A combination of acceleration or deceleration while turning causes the dot to go off center. I think the colors indicate driver inputs - red = braking, blue = steering, etc. The darker the color, the more input to the driver control.

That is correct about the circle being 1 g of acceleration and not the limit of the tires. Not sure about the input being related to the color.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I'm never going to run the car on any track, let alone one in Germany..

The track is in Germany, not on the moon. It is a valid measure of performance regardless of where it is located. Taking this car to the most demanding track in the world proves something over taking it to a lesser track where extra HP could make a poor handling car look better on the time sheet. You can expect that if a car does well at the ring it will do well everywhere else in the world.


I’m not specifically picking on you here because I’ve seen this comment about ‘some track in Germany’ about 100 times. Regardless of the variances possible with conditions and driver, this is as valid of a measure of handling performance as any 0-60 or ¼ mile time. Other than testing these things in a laboratory it is as good as we are going to get.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by detltu

That is correct about the circle being 1 g of acceleration and not the limit of the tires. Not sure about the input being related to the color.

I did notice the color went to black as the speed topped out. Outrunning the speed of light?

Man, I probably couldn't come anywhere close to beating his time, but it SURE would be fun to try.


.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Okay, so it's your opinion that most ZL1s will be rarely driven.

Also, just because a ZL1 isn't driven in the rain doesn't mean that it won't be driven often and driven aggressively.

Well, duh. Yes, it is my opinion, based on what I have seen with other "limited" edition cars, that most of owners of ZL1's will not drive them anywhere near their limits. In my experience, those who are wary of getting their car wet are also reluctant to drive them often, let alone on a track where there is a chance of road debris damaging their clearcoat.

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

The track is in Germany, not on the moon. It is a valid measure of performance regardless of where it is located. Taking this car to the most demanding track in the world proves something over taking it to a lesser track where extra HP could make a poor handling car look better on the time sheet. You can expect that if a car does well at the ring it will do well everywhere else in the world.


I’m not specifically picking on you here because I’ve seen this comment about ‘some track in Germany’ about 100 times. Regardless of the variances possible with conditions and driver, this is as valid of a measure of handling performance as any 0-60 or ¼ mile time. Other than testing these things in a laboratory it is as good as we are going to get.

It might as well be the moon, as the likelihood of me taking a ZL1 ( if I owned one) overseas just to drive it at the 'Ring is next to zero. I wasn't suggesting that it is not a valid means of showing a cars capabilities, just that having a good time there, or on any other track for that matter, is not going to influence my decision to buy or not buy one.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Well, duh. Yes, it is my opinion, based on what I have seen with other "limited" edition cars, that most of owners of ZL1's will not drive them anywhere near their limits.

When stating an opinion, possible misrepresentation can be avoided by clearly phrasing statements of opinion as such, as opposed to using the words such as "fact" in one's statement of opinion.

Originally Posted by tooslow

In my experience, those who are wary of getting their car wet are also reluctant to drive them often, let alone on a track where there is a chace of road debris damaging their clearcoat.

Anecdotal sampling often does not extrapolate accurately to the total population.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

I did notice the color went to black as the speed topped out. Outrunning the speed of light?

Man, I probably couldn't come anywhere close to beating his time, but it SURE would be fun to try.


.

Before I die...I'd like to visit Europe. Specifically Italy, the place of my family's origins...

While over there, I want to rent a decent car and take a trip around the 'Ring, if possible...it would be a dream come true.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

When stating an opinion, possible misrepresentation can be avoided by clearly phrasing statements of opinion as such, as opposed to using the words such as "fact" in one's statement of opinion.

Agreed. Considering that the car is not even in the hands of consumers yet, it is impossible for anyone, including me to make a factual statement. Therefore it will require me to refrain from stating conjecture as fact until such time as the data needed to support my position can be obtained.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Antecdotal sampling often does not extrapolate accurately to the total population.

True, but when you draw conclusions from a set of data subject to random variation, in this case my observances over time of limited production vehicles of various makes and models, the system should produce somewhat reasonable answers when applied to this particular situation. It's been awhile, but I took statistics in college, too.

[91Z28350]

LOL, smart peole talk!

[GRAHL]

Originally Posted by 91Z28350

LOL, smart peole talk!

lol, no way, more like douchebag talk. Tooslow tries passing opinion off as fact and gets called out for it. then uses as many 50-cent words as possible to cover. happens all over the web, haha.

[fiascoes1]

Originally Posted by GRAHL

lol, no way, more like douchebag talk. Tooslow tries passing opinion off as fact and gets called out for it. then uses as many 50-cent words as possible to cover. happens all over the web, haha.