Faytals Debate of the Week: Auto or Stick

[GEEKFREEKSCOTTY]

Originally Posted by ps2ren

Oh wait...

I DO!

I have the Automatic transmission for the versatility of it. It's my daily driver, and I have to fight traffic. It's very nice to be able to just put it in drive and not worry about it. It's also a great relief to my hip and knee vs. driving a manual. I used to drive a 5sp Manual Jeep in traffic.. not fun with a high-friction centerforce clutch.

I also love the option of paddle shifting. I outfitted my 2011 Camaro with the Vitesse aluminum paddles, and my transmission got tuned by Ted Jannetty.

Let me tell you that those two mods makes a HUGE difference on how the camaro shifts with paddles.

So, for me, having the TYPE of automatic in the Camaro (auto with the paddle shift option) is the best of both worlds. I really can't think of any driving that I would do with a pure manual transmission, that I couldn't accomplish with my automatic transmission + manual mode with Paddle-shifting.

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by vroomapunk

Right, the new dual clutch high end trans ARE the best out there. They are closer to a "computer controlled manual" if that makes any sense. Either way, its what they are all moving to, and results in the best performance.

Personally, I like the idea of having a hand and foot free, and not having to shift in traffic. But what I really dont like, is if I had a manual, I HAVE to shift, no matter what, forever.

The auto at least gives me the choice to paddle shift or go full auto.


For an auto manufacturer, the auto with paddle shifter is getting more popular, and I really dont think people will get that upset if a manual isnt offered, because alot of the high end cars, dont even come in manual anymore, just the dual clutch as stated before, and people are still buying ferraris, porches, nissan GTRs, etc

Agree 100%. If I was a company I would want to offer the best, and the best right now is the dual clutch transmissions. With that said I do not have the delay on my paddles in my 2010. Pretty sure mine shifts faster than the stock throw manuals. I have driven both fyi.

The supercars described above shifts in the milliseconds....cant beat that.

[rez333]

All automatics (that I've seen) have a "manual mode" regardless of whether they have paddle shifters. Still I haven't ever gotten used to them, and I can't feel the car like I can with manual shift. There's a synergy with manual and the driver can feel the car intuitively to the point where heel-toe shifting is possible.

With automatics, that feedback just isn't there or at least I haven't ever gotten used to it; you pretty much have to just look at the revs to decide when to shift on an automatic. Then again I have never used those ultra fast automatic transmissions and maybe the delay in shift on the automatics I've used is what's creating the disconnect for me.

[rez333]

Also, those ultra fast automatics are very hard on the transmission (eg. Lambo and GTR transmissions have short lifespans). With a clutch you can regulate the power and reduce the strain on your transmission.

With a clutch you can feel and control the transferrence of power to the flywheel, but with an automatic the transferrence is controlled by computers - you just decide how much power to transfer without any control on how that power is transferred.

[JOHNSONROD]

Although apparently people on here are saying that the autos are faster on any track which I didn't realize, I thought they still preferred manuals on most tracks outside of drags, guess I was wrong.[/QUOTE]


your not wrong.
if you want to drag race, get an auto, put in a stall and work on being consistent. the manual is not as consistent for most of us.
if you want to do road track days, get the manual. the autos just are not best suited for road tracking.
you can drag a manual and you can road race an auto but they each have their specialties.
i have a manual because i like road tracking and could not care any less about drag racing. the drag race guys usually get autos because they like it and dont care about road tracking.
to me the preference in trans is all about what you do with the car. just my opinion and personal experience.

[GEEKFREEKSCOTTY]

Originally Posted by rez333

All automatics (that I've seen) have a "manual mode" regardless of whether they have paddle shifters. Still I haven't ever gotten used to them, and I can't feel the car like I can with manual shift. There's a synergy with manual and the driver can feel the car intuitively to the point where heel-toe shifting is possible.

With automatics, that feedback just isn't there or at least I haven't ever gotten used to it; you pretty much have to just look at the revs to decide when to shift on an automatic. Then again I have never used those ultra fast automatic transmissions and maybe the delay in shift on the automatics I've used is what's creating the disconnect for me.

a 6 speed Automatic transmission that lets you individually select 1 - 6 gears is NOT the same as a typical P,R,N,D,3,2 type of transmission.

Granted, the auto transmission in the Camaro isn't going to shift as fast a lambo, ferrari, or an F1 "flappy paddle" transmission.. then again, the Camaro isn't a $100K + car. But with the aluminum paddles and a transmission tune, it performs really well.

Also, you don't need to "only look at the revs" to figure out when to shift on the A6, you can also go by the sound and feel of the car just as you would with a manual (though, it's handy that the tach is displayed on my windshield). If that's not enough, a shift light can be added.

The "feeling" that you are referring to that is being transmitted by the transmission through the shifter can be felt with other parts of your body. You just have to get used to it.

I too can "feel" when to shift the car by the vibrations that the transmission/engine/exhaust give out. Since I don't have my hand on the shift knob, I feel it transmitted to me through the driver's seat into my legs/ass/spine/back.

It's still a type of synergy with the car. But, it is a new paradigm in thinking about automatic transmissions.

True, I cannot perform "heel-toe" driving.. but I don't need to. The transmission computer does my rev-matching for me.

[Silver-SS]

That's what I thought but many people on here say the auto is faster, they don't add "in a straight line" to their statement. In my many test drives I found it real hard to shift to my desired gear while turning with the auto and I dont like having to go through every gear either. It seemed to buck and destabilize the car as you down shifted the auto in the corner, while in the manual I can throw it into the gear I want to exit in and blip the throttle,slip the clutch and the car remains stable throughout.

[1CamaroSS]

To answer your question.... As a manufacture you must realize there will always be up/down, left/right, good/evil, in/out and auto/manual. One side can't exist without the other. Even if money isn't an option you would still have to create both types to cover the spectrum of your clientel.
Personally, I wish these cars came in auto or dual clutch paddle manuals. The stick is fun to drive but wastes too much time.

[GEEKFREEKSCOTTY]

Originally Posted by rez333

With a clutch you can feel and control the transferrence of power to the flywheel, but with an automatic the transferrence is controlled by computers - you just decide how much power to transfer without any control on how that power is transferred.

Very true.. and there are times (especially on wet pavement), that I wish I did have a clutch that I could use to feather the power getting to the wheels. Instead, I have to feather the throttle.

And, I do wish I had a bit better launch control. But that is rectified by adding a stall converter and a brake line lock on the front wheels.

But, that's about the only sacrifice I can think of, that I gave up by going with the auto transmission + flappy paddles. For my driving style/usage, I feel like I gained a lot more than I lost by means of versatility.

Though, I do wish the auto transmission was mated behind the LS3 instead of the L99. I'm going to be doing the LS3 conversion to get me there, but that's $2500 worth of project. Still, less expensive than getting the manual and switching it to the A6 transmission later.

I'm honestly not AGAINST a manual transmission. In fact, I was dead set against getting an automatic Camaro at first. I thought it was sacrilegious that a "muscle car" even had the option. (old school thinking).

But, I did more research on the A6 in the camaro and the technology that went into it. As well as how the computer controls it. It was the high-tech that went into the A6 that sold me. However, If the camaro didn't have the flappy paddle manual mode option, but instead had an "auto-stick" like the Dodge Charger/Challenger other types of slappy-stick manual, I would have got the M6 instead.

We also have a 2006 Dodge Charger SRT8 and it has the 5speed automatic with the autostick (I call it a "Slappy-Stick" since you bump it left or right to change gears in manual mode). The paddle shifters on the camaro are the way to go for a manual mode automatic transmission.

I just think with today's technology, you can't really use a blanket statement that Auto>Manual or Manual>Auto in all situations.

If we compare apples to apples (IE: 5th gen camaros only), I think we can say that in MOST driving situations, they are pretty equal. It's those specialized uses mentioned by other posters that someone should decide their choice on, as we can point to some hard data there. Anything else is just bias or preference, and that's perfectly fine.

Trying to compare other types of manual/auto transmissions from other cars against each other is just fraught with futility as there are way to many other variables to consider.

Even the Camaro itself isn't the best car to use in all race situations. I bought the Camaro because I love Camaros (with the exception of years 1982 - 1999), and I love the modern revitalization of the "Muscle Car".

If I was going to choose a car specifically for doing road course races, it wouldn't have been the Camaro.

Likewise, if I was going to choose a car specifically for doing drag racing, it wouldn't have been the Camaro. (though, the new COPO Camaro makes a very strong case to be considered for a Drag car).

[camoman]

Auto

[73camarolt]

For constant daily driving and traffic, auto. For some nice country back roads, fun weekend drives, manual.