Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

But it was said that the GT500 is a "drag car" so it makes a lot of sense to offer launch control on a drag car car.

It was also said that the ZL1 was NOT a "drag car". So i ask. If that is indeed the case why go to the lengths that GM did to ensure the car LAUNCHES well??

I will answer your question with another question, who said that the GT500 was a drag car and who said that the ZL1 is NOT a drag car? I have been reading all the car mags and watching all their videos and not one car maker said that their car is or is not a drag car. People on the forums and bench racers are saying it.

Chevy engineers said the ZL1 customer can take it to the drag strip and run twelves all day long. Ford engineers said no such thing about the GT500 being just a drag car. These are cars that can do well in any category. However, we have seen that one car does better in certain categories than the other. GT500 doing better at the 1/4 mile track than the ZL1, and the ZL1 doing better or will to do better than the GT500 on the road course.

It would be foolish of one car maker to say that their car (GT500/ZL1) is specifically made for a purpose. But like anything else on this forum, some people will believe want they want to believe. But in the end, the consumer will win and pick the car they want. Peace

[SVTGOD]

^^^X10000000

One has a solid and one has independent.

Stock for stock. ZL1 handles better than Gt500 on a road course and Gt500 a little better on the drag strip.

But seriously, lots of people that race these cars are not going to do it on stock setups.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Personally im calling BS on this write up also. Just off the simple fact there is NO hard data to back up their claims. I mean not even a 5 second clip of the cars on the "backroads" going at it. Yet the hard data they do have clearly goes to the GT500 but somehow that isnt good enough.

So on PAPER the GT500 is the clear winner IMO due to the much larger gap in performance advantage between the Shelbys acceleration and the ZL1's handling.

Meaning yes the ZL1 did perform SLIGHTLY better handling wise, but the GT500 straight kicked ass in the acceleration tests. I could also bring up that it braked better but cmon 1ft is hardly a victory.

So back to my point on paper the Shelbys looks to have won but due to some undocumented feelings the editors had the ZL1 was awarded the victory. Its hella fishy.

This is all we have to go with right now tho. Thats why I have no problem giving this one to the ZL1. I honestly think the truth will come to the light as more maga perform their head to head comparisons.

I think it will go like this.

Short track with a good bit of tight turns.
ZL1>GT500

Larger track with a couple long straights.
ZL1< GT500

So the skid pad and slalom stats were not wins for the ZL1?
Your last statement is what I have been saying also.

One thing several have brought up The Ring and that Ford didn't publish any times because there was other traffic to slow the car down while GM rented the track and published their times. I ask this on fear of stirring the pot again, Why did Ford not rent the ring? Was it because they knew they couldn't beat the ZL1's time so they needed an excuse of "other traffic" . If anything sounds suspicious that does. Has ford published ANY track times other than 0-60, 1/4 mile and top speed? If so what were they? If not then why? Chevy has released all of those plus times at several road courses. If I were a ford fan I would be wondering why myself. But again this is just my opinion.

[Exigent]

Seems like this test just leaves everyone right where they started - you either like Camaro or Mustang, this minor difference in performance metrics doesn't change that.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Of course they were wins. Read my post again. I clearly said that the ZL1 won in the handling tests.

As for the whole "RIIIING" bs. Ford didnt release ANY performance number on the GT500 other than it could hit 202mph in testing. No 0-60. No 1/4 mile. No braking. The only one that was chest thumping and bragging about how the car could do this and that was GM. Hell those idiots even went as far as saying in simulations the ZL1 was faster than the GT500. (lmao) So being that Ford didnt release those numbers makes it no surprise ring times werent released. Personally i could care less about what either car ran at the "RIIING" for many many many reasons. Times from that track is nothing more than marketing HYPE, and incase your blind or deaf they ZL1 program was FULL of it.

Didn't you claim there was only hard data showing the Shelby better? So you contradicted yourself when you said the ZL1 was the better handling car. If there was no hard data as you said how did you reach that conclusion? Anyway, I was just pointing out that there was data supporting their claim. The second part of my post had NOTHING to do with your post. I was asking a legitimate question wanting to know why ford hasn't done anything official. You didn't need to go off on your tirade about the ring just because you don't care about it. Obviously others do or they wouldn't be making excuses for them not backing up their claims about the Shelby being as good or better on a road course.

By the way I have just read your 30 posts on here and I must say for a Camaro owner you sure are in love with the Shelby.

[r69rogue]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Another person who clearly knows little of what they're talking about.

There is a HUGE difference between .7 seconds in cars that are running 11's and 12s compared to the same elapsed time in cars running 13's and 14s.

wow thanks for the arrogant response. i was mearlly makeing a point about the weight to ratio h.p

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

But it was said that the GT500 is a "drag car" so it makes a lot of sense to offer launch control on a drag car car.

It was also said that the ZL1 was NOT a "drag car". So i ask. If that is indeed the case why go to the lengths that GM did to ensure the car LAUNCHES well??

Hum, let's see the car with the solid rear axle is the better drag car and the car with the 4 wheel independent suspension is a better track car. So obviously the bulk of the money spent on the drag car went into the engine and the bulk of the money spent on the track car went into a magnetic magical suspension. So far it makes sense. Oh what, some of the customers may want to try another venue so a nod to handling from the drag car and a nod to overcoming weight on launch from the road car. Yep still making sense. So what's the argument here again? Looks? As much as I think the Camaro has it all over the regular Mustang in looks, there's no denying the Shelby looks badass with the wide open grill, so it's all down to personal preference. In spite of what the reviews have said or will say I'm still calling it a tie. If I had to pick one? Shelby. Sorry, but at the end of the day a more legendary car. And for me, simply more insane. There are lots of great cars in my snack bracket but very few if any insane ones without a lottery win. And just like a crazy woman I think the Shelby would just leave a bigger grin etched into my face.


Go ahead, call me a fan boy. 2 of my 30+ cars have been Mustangs, both bought in the last 4 years so I guess to some that qualifies me.

[dkg11]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Really? You have already tuned a ZL1 and a 2013 GT500? And with just a tune and intake you have overcome the near 100rwhp deficit and weight difference between these two cars? I call BS on numerous accounts.

I personally have not tuned shit... but yes both of these cars have been put on mustang dynos, i have not seen 2 run baseline test then get tuned then be tested again... all i am saying is that put a CAI on and then tune it and it would be very close
ZL1 for hennessy

And heres the gt500 for you buddy


Also im obviously going to be biased towards the camaro seeing the fact i own one

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by dkg11

I personally have not tuned shit... but yes both of these cars have been put on mustang dynos, i have not seen 2 run baseline test then get tuned then be tested again... all i am saying is that put a CAI on and then tune it and it would be very close
ZL1 for hennessy

And heres the gt500 for you buddy


Also im obviously going to be biased towards the camaro seeing the fact i own one

As you should. It's a great car!

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Hum, let's see the car with the solid rear axle is the better drag car and the car with the 4 wheel independent suspension is a better track car. So obviously the bulk of the money spent on the drag car went into the engine and the bulk of the money spent on the track car went into a magnetic magical suspension. So far it makes sense. Oh what, some of the customers may want to try another venue so a nod to handling from the drag car and a nod to overcoming weight on launch from the road car. Yep still making sense.

It would seem the bulk of development on the ZL1 went into road course performance (suspension, aero, PTM) but they knew people would still want to drag race the car so they spent some development time there - just like people drag race Boss 302s. The GT500 has an awesome engine and it seems more focused on drag racing. They knew some would still want to take it to the road course so they offer those packages as well.

Now people from both sides will argue each car’s strength, saying the other is a loser. Some Chevy guys are disappointed with the ZL1's straight line performance because maybe they favor drag racing. Some Ford guys will be angry if the GT500 doesn't win on the road course because it has so much more power they feel it should win hands down and remind everyone about ‘forged internals’. I’m sure if Chevy wanted to build the end-all-be-all drag racer they could have. Same goes for a Mustang road racing champion. But instead we have diversity – not a bad thing.

Anti-ZL1 people use ‘ZL1 was a drag car in 69’; ‘supercharged cars aren’t track cars’; and ‘muscle cars drag race’ amongst other arguments to make themselves feel better. Maybe some Chevy guys insecure about the ZL1’s straight line performance hide behind the track performance of the ZL1. Guys who are insecure about their GT or SS state how they’ve spent $500 in mods and are faster than both cars.

Everybody likes competition and nobody likes to lose. At the end of the day you are either in the market for one of these cars or you aren’t. If you are you can buy whatever you like – including cars other than the ZL1 or GT500. Nobody will think any less of you. If you aren’t, great - be happy with whatever car you have. No need to be a hater on either. What a great time to be an automotive enthusiast.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by r69rogue

wow thanks for the arrogant response. i was mearlly makeing a point about the weight to ratio h.p

I apologize as the arrogance was unintended. I just found it interesting that you said "only .7 seconds" when we are dealing with cars that are getting very fast, and the ratio of power needed:gains shown is growing quickly.

Adding 100 horsepower to a 225 horsepower car is going to SHOW a huge improvement, while 100 extra on the ZL1s 500 rwhp might sound like a ton, it's just not going to show that large of an improvement.

Diminishing returns if I'm correct is the idea at play here.

[klatterblast]

All in all whoever throws the most money in either car will have one baddass car. Not many people will leave these cars stock, not me anyway. Headers, pulley and tune will bring the ZL1 up to equal or better power level as the GT500. ZL1 already has looks and handling wrapped up.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by HpJunkie69

Personally im calling BS on this write up also. Just off the simple fact there is NO hard data to back up their claims. I mean not even a 5 second clip of the cars on the "backroads" going at it. Yet the hard data they do have clearly goes to the GT500 but somehow that isnt good enough.

So on PAPER the GT500 is the clear winner IMO due to the much larger gap in performance advantage between the Shelbys acceleration and the ZL1's handling.

Meaning yes the ZL1 did perform SLIGHTLY better handling wise, but the GT500 straight kicked ass in the acceleration tests. I could also bring up that it braked better but cmon 1ft is hardly a victory.

So back to my point on paper the Shelbys looks to have won but due to some undocumented feelings the editors had the ZL1 was awarded the victory. Its hella fishy.

This is all we have to go with right now tho. Thats why I have no problem giving this one to the ZL1. I honestly think the truth will come to the light as more maga perform their head to head comparisons.

I think it will go like this.

Short track with a good bit of tight turns.
ZL1>GT500

Larger track with a couple long straights.
ZL1< GT500

So basically you're calling the reviewers liars. How convenient since you have zero proof.

If you think the zl1 handles only "slightly" better then you're deluding yourself.

Some people keep saying "the truth will come out". Where is this stealth secret weapon waiting to be unleashed? The truth is already out. Or rather I should say some of it is out. As they do more h2h, then more will come out.

The zl1 could win on both long and short tracks. I'm not saying length is totally irrelevant, but there are plenty of tracks that are long and have plenty of turns. That's what make road courses so different from ovals and drag strips.

There probably will be tracks where the gt500 will have the advantage. I'm not trying to steal the gt500's thunder, but you need to give credit to the zl1 for it's accomplishments as well.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

The zl1 could win on both long and short tracks. I'm not saying length is totally irrelevant, but there are plenty of tracks that are long and have plenty of turns. That's what make road courses so different from ovals and drag strips.

There probably will be tracks where the gt500 will have the advantage. I'm not trying to steal the gt500's thunder, but you need to give credit to the zl1 for it's accomplishments as well.

This is true - not as simple as track length and number of straights. If there is a difficult turn before a long straight the exit speed of that turn is critical. So if the ZL1 had a better minimum corner / exit speed, the added HP of the GT500 may or may not allow it to make up any time on the long straight.

ZL1 will excel at rough tracks with challenging low and high speed turns, GT500 will excel at smooth tracks biased with more straights - especially those long enough to exceed the 184mph limit of the ZL1 (these are few and far between). This is all relative - meaning the gap between the two will change accordingly. It is quite possible GT500 will win at all tracks or ZL1 will win at all tracks or any combination of the two.

Other factors? Braking and brake fade, gearing, driver, weather…

There are definitely enough variables in road racing that no matter the outcome, each side will have enough fodder to fuel its beliefs through 2013.