tuners' advice wanted.....meth injection ...should i or not?

[JANNETTYRACING]

And the Plot Thickens!

No meth, some meth, lots of meth ?????

This is what I meant about dropping a bomb and scaring everyone with NO FACTS.

Ted.

[BlownSS]

Originally Posted by Jessika@Magnacharger

:P


its not exactly easy for these answers to be produced...

I can appreciate this but......... , can you tell us whether it will or will not cause corrosion?

[BlownSS]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

well....IMHO...you don't need it (meth) and it is a pain in the R-ss to maintain.

If you go with any meth system, regardless of manufacturer, the systems only adds power if you tune for them. That is to say, any properly designed system should be able to take a 536 rwhp Maggie up 50 hp with easy. But is it safer?

Safer than what? You just added 50 HP so if you are asking if 536rwhp is as safe or safe than say 586 with the Meth then NO.

So here is my take...Meth makes more power - no question. However, if you just added a meth inj system to your car "as tuned" it will not make more power. In fact, it can and should loose power. Why? The water meth puts out your existing flame in the combustion chamber. It makes the car run rich too

The extra power gained by meth injection comes from adding more timing and leaning out the fuel flow.

So you just got your meth system and had it installed and tuned - what did they do? chances are they gave you 5 or 6 more degrees of timing at WOT and full boost. Then for good measure they leaned it out just a tab to make up for the meth now being pumped in.

Cool, now your car runs faster but YOU ARE MARRIED to the system. If you run out of meth, you can't go Wide Open under boost until you add the go go juice. For some it is the price you pay for the extra power. but I guess teh old lady in me says once the thrill is gone... I would trade the lower power number for the less hassle

Now with all that said - We have had great luck with Cooling Mist and Snow for our customers. Also if you are at 535 you can safely go to 600 on pump gas before you need the the meth to compensate to the low octane

Thanks for the input! I knew that it couldnt be the miracle worker i thought it would be. I think I will just stay with a higher octane fuel (95) to keep it safe. The Harley dealer a block away has 95 Sunoco at the pump!

[10aSSee D]

I still want meth but not if it damages my rotors. Why would you coat them knowing people will be running meth? Kenne Bell doesn't have this problem so what's the difference in their coating if they even have any at all? I like my maggie but hope I didn't make the wrong decision on blowers. Not bashing the maggie it's great just want to be able to run meth and turn up the boost a little.

[Jessika]

Originally Posted by BlownSS

I can appreciate this but......... , can you tell us whether it will or will not cause corrosion?

cause corrosion of the rotor coating? Yes it can.


I want to run meth... But I am looking into a kinda fabricated snow kit that is possibly a plate that goes between the blower and the manifold. So after the rotors but before the intercooler.

Will I ever actually do it? IDK. But that is what I am personally looking in to.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by Clint@A.I.R.

Sorry, I disagree slightly here. On nearly all FI setups, the add of a small shot of Meth to cool down the charge, does add HP and safety. Does it maximize your HP potential by running Meth, no, in order to do that you need to add timing and tune for the meth it as you mentioned. Also does not mean you spray too much meth, as that could cause a loss in power. It's about the proper combo.

Clint

The cooling effect is minimal unless you pump in at least 6gph. At 6 gph you would need to retune - most of the bad as systems run twin 6's up to twin 15 gph nozzles - So I guess we need to agree to disagree

[JJ2010]

I'm out on the meth kit....

I think there is just to many what if's for me.....

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

The cooling effect is minimal unless you pump in at least 6gph. At 6 gph you would need to retune - most of the bad as systems run twin 6's up to twin 15 gph nozzles - So I guess we need to agree to disagree

I've never really met (or know of) any other tuners with methanol experience that DON'T recommend it.

I DO, but I only recommend Alkycontrol kits because as you say, you become 'married' to it. I have seen repeated pump and line failures from the other 3 'big' companies and they all use those crappy stab-in fittings with plastic line (nothing but industrial air line fittings) and their soft parts int he pump are not 100% methanol safe. I have cars that have been running the Alkycontrol kits for over 5 years without ever having a hiccup. I also never use mixes; straight methanol.

[coolingmist]

Originally Posted by Frost

I've never really met (or know of) any other tuners with methanol experience that DON'T recommend it.

I DO, but I only recommend Alkycontrol kits because as you say, you become 'married' to it. I have seen repeated pump and line failures from the other 3 'big' companies and they all use those crappy stab-in fittings with plastic line (nothing but industrial air line fittings) and their soft parts int he pump are not 100% methanol safe. I have cars that have been running the Alkycontrol kits for over 5 years without ever having a hiccup. I also never use mixes; straight methanol.

Completely un true. Every single methanol company in the USA has 100% methanol compatible pumps. All of the "soft parts" seals, wetted parts are compatible. To say anything otherwise is incorrect. Also, every single pump manufacturer including us has changed from the Shurflo pump to the Aquatec pump because it is better, its just a fact.

We offer stainless steel hose as an upgrade choice for those that want it. it would only be for looks/vanity as our nylon hose will hold up to any abuse you will give it. The idea is to built a kit as reliable as possible but then also to have a real flow based failsafe to react incase of issue/alert the owner.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by coolingmist

Completely un true. Every single methanol company in the USA has 100% methanol compatible pumps. All of the "soft parts" seals, wetted parts are compatible. To say anything otherwise is incorrect. Also, every single pump manufacturer including us has changed from the Shurflo pump to the Aquatec pump because it is better, its just a fact.

We offer stainless steel hose as an upgrade choice for those that want it. it would only be for looks/vanity as our nylon hose will hold up to any abuse you will give it. The idea is to built a kit as reliable as possible but then also to have a real flow based failsafe to react incase of issue/alert the owner.

After watching every other manufacturer's pump fail over time with pure methanol, how are the Alkycontrol pumps different then? Julio says he replaces some internal parts. Since his have never ended up leaking, it's not a point that I have ever debated with him. I have not seen a Cooling mist pump fail; let me be clear, but the only kit to come through here was about 4-5 months ago.

The second most common progressive setup that rolls through the shop is Snow's 7+ year old, chinese made, Labonte controller with it's internal MAP sensor that seems to be all over the place from one unit to the next.

Let me just be clear for the readers here... I DON'T SELL METHANOL KITS and I MAKE NOTHING OFF OF THEIR CHOICE OF KIT. I tune cars and I do build consulting. I don't have an agenda other than wanting to make sure my customers get what's best.

[coolingmist]

Originally Posted by Frost

After watching every other manufacturer's pump fail over time with pure methanol, how are the Alkycontrol pumps different then? Julio says he replaces some internal parts. Since his have never ended up leaking, it's not a point that I have ever debated with him. I have not seen a Cooling mist pump fail; let me be clear, but the only kit to come through here was about 4-5 months ago.

The second most common progressive setup that rolls through the shop is Snow's 7+ year old, chinese made, Labonte controller with it's internal MAP sensor that seems to be all over the place from one unit to the next.

Let me just be clear for the readers here... I DON'T SELL METHANOL KITS and I MAKE NOTHING OFF OF THEIR CHOICE OF KIT. I tune cars and I do build consulting. I don't have an agenda other than wanting to make sure my customers get what's best.

Coolingmist controllers are made in the USA. Coolingmist pumps are made in the USA. Shurflo pumps are made in MEXICO. Im not knocking any other brand of kit, but these "issues" you refer to are not ours.

CM

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by JJ2010

I was thinking about putting a Meth injection kit on my TVS-2300 until seeing this.......

I am not to sure now.....

Watching this close now....

Same here. Scary stuff, eating up the Maggie. However, any good performance installer should be able to avoid the major pitfalls (destruction of engine or equipment).
I believe the proper thing to do is to have the right failsafes in place. If I choose meth I would do the following:

1. Keep a copy of my pre-meth tune on a programmer device, like a trinity device for example.
2. Ensure the proper valves and solenoids in place to make sure meth is only pumped when it should be. I think what I'm hearing is only at certain SC boost.
3. Use a switch in my setup so I can turn it on or off when I want to use it.
4. Using my programmer, dial-in the pre-meth tune or the post-meth tune depending of whether or not I'm going to use the meth on that perticular drive.
5. Ensure the technique used by your installer doesn't incorrectly spray all over your SC rotors based on the recommendations the SME's posted on this thread.

The reason I'm reading this thread is due to the fact that I'm considering a Maggie and saw posts regarding the benefits of Meth.
So, thanks to the OP for this question, and the SME's for responding to allow folks like me to make an informed decision. Good stuff. Cheers.

[Slowhawk]

From what I've personally seen. If you run meth,magnacharger can ussually see it being used on there rotors. They deny warrenty.It's been like this for years and the most common kit's were on Vette's. We still run the meth systems because the older 112 unit's needed it in a bad way to keep temp's somewhat in check.

As for methenol kit's. I'm a firm believer of Alky Control mostly because I've seen a ton of failure's from other kit's throughout the years but the Alky kit's have been dead reliable.I will disclaim that I've never seen a Coolingmist kit fail.They seem well made but I always stay with what I've tested and know works.

[GQ4Life]

I would trust ted he knows his stuff. He had my last 4cyl running double the stock power on stock internals turbo spraying meth for the 50K miles before I sold it with 80K
Now has my Camaro running 610wHP spraying meth for the last 10K miles with no problems.
He is not going to set you up with something that is bad for your engine. He has been in business for I think over 18years with a huge customer following for a reason.