Top Tier Gas and Oil Catch Cans GM Issue

[Jstephen]

Someone had asked... "so you think i should start going with top tier? Is it that much of a difference?"

And... "do catch cans really work?"

I know that this topic has been discussed quite extensively and to be honest a combination of this top tier gas and the installation of a oil catch can can go hand in hand.

I had to take my Buick in the other day for a misfire, and had an interesting conversation with a dealership mechanic the other day. He has seen over a hundred cars that have Misfires Due to Carbon Deposits.

Top tire gas does have high grade additives that help clean the deposits in an engine and help them break down carbon deposits and reduce build up.

Where do these deposits come from and how do they get into the intake? Well that is where the catch can comes in. The vacuum line that that pulls to the intake, is only supposed to burn off the oil vapors. This can result in a mild or sever misfire. This carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves can appears as soon as the vehicle has around 5,000 miles or more.

These symptoms effect not just Camaros, but the following models:

2009 - 2013 Buick Enclave
2009 - 2013 Buick Lacrosse
2008 - 2013 Cadillac CTS, STS
2010 - 2013 Cadillac SRX
2013 Cadillac ATS, XTS
2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS
2009 - 2013 Chevrolet Traverse
2009 - 2013 GMC Acadia
2010 - 2013 GMC Terrain
2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP
2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline
2009 - 2010 Saturn Outlook

With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
2.0 (RPO LNF)
2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK)
2.8L (RPO LAU)
3.0L (RPO LF1)
3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

The mechanic mentioned the following. He recommended that anybody who has these engine, run only high octane, top tier gas. When asked about the whole catch can issue, he said, well if the additives in the gas can't break it down, you might as well take some kind of precaution, and that a can would help. He was was surprised that GM has not redesigned the system to take care of this, but that is not up to him.

In addition, he recommended that people, add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus to their tank about every month, or every time they change their oil to help burn off deposits and keep injectors clean.

His Top Tier Gas Recommendations Were.
Exxon
Mobil
Shell

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html[/QUOTE]


So why report on this... Well I just shelled out Hundreds and hundreds of dollars on this issue for my Buick. Enough money that I could have bought 4 beautiful Catch Cans. Two for each of my vehicles, and a couple of spares. Yeah, close to $500.00 on Injector cleanings and replacement, and a decarbonization of the upper engine 4 times.

[GoldCartridgeGamer]

I use premium only gas, have a catch can, and every other oil change I use a bottle of Chevron Techron. Never had an issue out of my previous cars or this one. What that mechanic speaks of is truth!

[MS3DALE]

Service Information

2013 Chevrolet Camaro | Camaro VIN F Service Manual 3106 | Document ID: 2888869
#04-06-04-047K: TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) – U.S. Only - (Jul 19, 2012)

Subject:TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline (Deposits, Fuel Economy, No Start, Power, Performance, Stall Concerns) – U.S. Only

Models:2013 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks (U.S. Only)

This bulletin is being revised to add model years and additional sources to the Top Tier Fuel Retailers list. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-06-04-047J (Section 06 – Engine/Propulsion System). In Canada, refer to the latest version of Corporate Bulletin Number 05-06-04-022.A new class of fuel called TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is appearing at retail stations of some fuel marketers. This gasoline meets detergency standards developed by six automotive companies. All vehicles will benefit from using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline over gasoline containing the “Lowest Additive Concentration” set by the EPA. Those vehicles that have experienced deposit related concerns may especially benefit from the use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.

X925 Liftgate Jumper Harness to License Lamp Harness (UVC)



(1)Intake valve: 10,000 miles with TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline(2)Intake valve: 10,000 miles with Legal Minimum additive

Gasoline Brands (U.S.) That Currently Meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards


As of July 1, 2012, all grades of the following gasoline brands meet the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standards:

• 76 Stations

• Aloha Petroleum

• Chevron

• Conoco

• CountryMark

• Entec Stations

• Exxon

• Hawaii Fueling Network (HFN)

• Holiday Stationstores Inc.

• Kwik Trip Kwik Star

• MFA Oil Co.

• Mileage Stations

• Mobil

• Ohana Fuels

• Phillips 66

• QuickTrip

• Rebel Oil

• Road Ranger

• Severson Oil

• Shell

• Texaco

• Tri-Par Oil Co.

• U.S. Oil

What is TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?


TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is a new class of gasoline with enhanced detergency. It meets new, voluntary deposit control standards developed by six automotive companies that exceed the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA.
Where Can TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Be Purchased?


The TOP TIER program began on May 3, 2004 and many fuel marketers have joined the program and have introduced TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline. This is a voluntary program and not all fuel marketers will offer this product. Once fuel marketers make public announcements, they will appear on a list of brands that meet the TOP TIER standards.
Where Can I find the Latest Information on TOP TIER Fuel and Retailers?


On the web, please visit www.toptiergas.com for additional information and updated retailer lists.
Who developed TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards?


TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards were developed by six automotive companies: Audi, BMW, General Motors, Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen.
Why was TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline developed?


TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline was developed to increase the level of detergent additive in gasoline. The EPA requires that all gasoline sold in the U.S. contain a detergent additive. However, the requirement is minimal and in many cases, is not sufficient to keep engines clean. In order to meet TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standards, a higher level of detergent is needed than what is required by the EPA. Also, TOP TIER was developed to give fuel marketers the opportunity to differentiate their product.
Why did the six automotive companies join together to develop TOP TIER?


All six corporations recognized the benefits to both the vehicle and the consumer. Also, joining together emphasized that low detergency is an issue of concern to several automotive companies.
What are the benefits of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline?


TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner than gasoline containing the “Lowest Additive Concentration” set by the EPA. Clean engines help provide optimal fuel economy and performance and reduced emissions. Also, use of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help reduce deposit related concerns.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

[norton750]

I'm no expert, but with direct injection all the detergent won't cleen the intake valves. Catch can has got to be a good idea though

[Russell James]

Exactly. While I will always use top tier gas only, it is not logical as the only cause of intake valve deposits on an engine that the fuel doesn't pass the intake valves. What does pass the intake valves on a DI engine? Air and PCV/oil fumes. And no gas to keep that stuff washed off. Add a hair of reversion and some heat to burn things on nicely.... and gunkola.

I'll take port injection any day over DI. My Equinox DD with a 2.4 DI 4 banger just started running like crap lately, I'm sure it needs a top engine cleaning. And it has always run top tier gas and syn oil.

[SC2150]

Russell James is correct. The pictures of the valves above are from a port injected motor where top tier fuel additives do a great job. With a Direct Injection motor no fuel ever touches the intake valves, and it also is only in the combustion chamber for a few milleseconds as iit is injected in the final stage of the compression stroke so does little to help build up on the pistons either.

With a carburated or a port injected motor the fuel enters on the intake stroke as soon as the intake valve begins to open so it has time to work on carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.

Top tier fuels are still my choice DI or not, but it has absolutely no effect on a DI motors carbon/gunk buildup. Only solution is a properly functioning catchcan from the start.

[SC2150]

Also, using to much additive through your gas tank (a can every now and then is good....use to much and the injectors will fail prematurely) will cause issues with the injectors. A little is good, so alot must be better, right? NO. The slovents in the additives are great if used in moderation....(we do injector cleaning inhouse here and flow matching)

[Jstephen]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Top tier fuels are still my choice DI or not, but it has absolutely no effect on a DI motors carbon/gunk buildup. Only solution is a properly functioning catchcan from the start.

Installed Mine last night. Thank to the RX guys for making that product.