Tuner will VOID warranty

[SA CHEVY]

[Oldrocker]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, I'm not saying you guys can't recalibrate an ECM. And don't misunderstand me, I'm all for enthusiasts that use your services to provide said recalibrations. So it isn't that I doubt your mad hacker skills. So don't go there, that isn't the issue.

But as you guys come on this forum to represent your business, I come on here to represnt mine.

I don't need to know how to recalibrate a powertrain control module in order to have this discussion. But I do know the guys that do and I am informed that steps have been taken to be capable of recognizing when the ECM has been reprogrammed and re-reprogrammed. And I trust what these guys are telling me.

And lastly, fraud is defined as: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

For a customer to violate their warranty and then try to hide that violation to secure warranty work is by that deffinition, fraud. But that is my opinion. Maybe yours is different.

So again, I support you guys. It is absolutly awesome that you guys can help customers squeeze more HP out of the Camaros. And it's cool that you have businesses that help customers achieve higher levels of performance. The cars are calibrated to achieve the best balance of performance, emissions, fuel economy and durability. If a customer wants to use your product to trade off durabilty for performance, awesome!!! It just shouldn't be at GM's expense, and that is why I get bothered when someone suggests you can undo the recalibration to get the work done.

You have no first hand knowledge but you know some guys that do? My first cousins mother in laws brother knows some guys that know. Small world ain't it?

[RobertHarriSS]

Originally Posted by Oldrocker

You have no first hand knowledge but you know some guys that do? My first cousins mother in laws brother knows some guys that know. Small world ain't it?

Number 3 works for GM dude.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Oldrocker

You have no first hand knowledge but you know some guys that do? My first cousins mother in laws brother knows some guys that know. Small world ain't it?

Originally Posted by RobertHarriSS

Number 3 works for GM dude.

How about you know who you're talking to before you smart off. Number 3 is probably in the top 5 most informed and most connected members here on this forum.

[The_Blur]

Be nice, everyone.

My advice to anyone tuning is to be careful. If you break something, be prepared to pay for it without blaming someone for telling you GM will cover it. Do it discretely, and avoid posting your personal information with your warranty-voiding evidence.

My advice to people in this thread is to be friendly to all of our experts. We are fortunate at Camaro5 to have GM insiders as well as thoroughly educated performance experts. On the GM side, we have people who play an important role in development and keeping the community informed. These insiders give us information that is as good as fact. We can't take that lightly. On the aftermarket side, we have engineers who dedicate theirs lives to making ours more fun with the products that they develop. Let's all respect our insiders, regardless of their role in our community.

Please continue accordingly.

[riverrattcom]

Here's My Line!



"No Mr. Goodwrench, I haven't had my ECM Tuned"

[The 2010 Sin]

My service manager and his writers came into my bar today and asked me how my '07 tahoe was doing.. i chuckled told him i broke down and bought the 2010 SS/RS that they made me sit in last year when it first hit the ground. they laughed and paused... they said now Zach, we know how you are with your cars... so when you're ready to mod them let us do all the install work and we will make sure that your warranty doesnt go away..

I have done a crapload of business with this dealership over the past 10 years. all 5 guys know me by name. Feels good to know there are good dealers out there.. I understand.. give them the hours and they are happy..
they even said they would work a deal for my CAM install that I want to do so I dont lose out on all my powertrain warranty... so Poo on these other dealers.. they're all in it for the money.. talk to them about what you wanna do...

Oklahoma ( 1 )
Other States ( 0 )

YAYUH!!!!

[live2well]

Just one thought ...how can ones warranty be voided without proof that the tune or any other mod caused the problem in question? I am pretty sure there are laws that prohibit the voiding of the warranty without proof that what was modified cause the issue. Even if it is written in the paper work that GM gave you that any change in the original car will void the warranty, the law supersedes the paperwork provided. JMO


With that said.....a lie is a lie.

[2SSCAMARO]

I just wish there were data available to show what group claims the most warranty work. #1 the guys who like a tuned vehicle, cares for it well, maintains it properly, and treats it like it is.... their pride and joy. OR #2 the completely stock vehicle driven daily like it was stolen and treated like a beater! I think I know even without the data to support my belief.

[Screaminz2002]

The people who sell the tuners and everything else for that matter will tell you what you want to hear. Oh no it won't effect your warranty, is undectectable, the law says..
What someone posted earlier is 100% correct. None will give you a written power train warranty if your claim is denied through GM. They are not legaly responsible and will find such proof in this or that as to why they are not to blame.
I came from another group of autos and where there was trouble with blown transmissions after installing a tuner. I am not talking 1-2 people but quite a few. You know how many they took responsibility for? 0. All they had to do was say there was no proof to the claims. You will not find a single topic on their forum about any of it. They disappear like dust in the wind. You have to go to the specific vehicle to find the 50 plus threads on it.
At the end of the day it's your dime. No one else is going to cry for you. If you can slip one by GM then good for you. I just hope you can financially back it up if it doesn't slip by GM. There was someone not long ago who posted he tuned and modded his vehicle. Broke the rearend and came crying on here wanting sympathy. He pretty much got flamed.

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First, I'm not saying you guys can't recalibrate an ECM. And don't misunderstand me, I'm all for enthusiasts that use your services to provide said recalibrations. So it isn't that I doubt your mad hacker skills. So don't go there, that isn't the issue.

But as you guys come on this forum to represent your business, I come on here to represnt mine.

I don't need to know how to recalibrate a powertrain control module in order to have this discussion. But I do know the guys that do and I am informed that steps have been taken to be capable of recognizing when the ECM has been reprogrammed and re-reprogrammed. And I trust what these guys are telling me.

And lastly, fraud is defined as: A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.

For a customer to violate their warranty and then try to hide that violation to secure warranty work is by that deffinition, fraud. But that is my opinion. Maybe yours is different.

So again, I support you guys. It is absolutly awesome that you guys can help customers squeeze more HP out of the Camaros. And it's cool that you have businesses that help customers achieve higher levels of performance. The cars are calibrated to achieve the best balance of performance, emissions, fuel economy and durability. If a customer wants to use your product to trade off durabilty for performance, awesome!!! It just shouldn't be at GM's expense, and that is why I get bothered when someone suggests you can undo the recalibration to get the work done.

You are very misinformed.

Your theory that tunes trade off durability for performance leads me to believe you do not understand late model tuning in the least bit. That is a borderline outrageous statement, with NO basis in the world of facts.

When we can add 4-5 MPG to a diesel truck, whats the negative trade off? Extra torque? LOL.

When we tune late model GM gas trucks to make the factory designed AFM system work MORE efficiently, and the truck picks up 2-3 MPG, where exactly was that trade off again?

When a well developed tune is written to add line pressure to a TCM cal, making the trans shift firmer, thus reducing slip and extending the life of that transmission, where is the negative trade off?

I could go on and on here.....

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

You are very misinformed.

Your theory that tunes trade off durability for performance leads me to believe you do not understand late model tuning in the least bit. That is a borderline outrageous statement, with NO basis in the world of facts.

When we can add 4-5 MPG to a diesel truck, whats the negative trade off? Extra torque? LOL.

When we tune late model GM gas trucks to make the factory designed AFM system work MORE efficiently, and the truck picks up 2-3 MPG, where exactly was that trade off again?

When a well developed tune is written to add line pressure to a TCM cal, making the trans shift firmer, thus reducing slip and extending the life of that transmission, where is the negative trade off?

I could go on and on here.....

Oh this is awesome. I am a manager in Validation at GM. If you want me to teach you the class I teach on reliability and durability I would be happy to. I work every day with the engineers looking for every possible ounce of FE and balance it with performance. And I have no reason to make anything up as you seem to think.

If you are shifting a trans firmer to avoid slip in the torque convertor and clutch you are driving the loads into the gears, propshaft u-joints and rear axle. And yes that statistically impacts the durability of those components. Were the valves validated for your increased pressure? No. At all operating temperatures? Hot? Cold?

And if you are running AFM in the trucks at lower speeds to gain FE, then I know that unless you are retuning the exhaust and mounts and going to an active engine mount at a minimum you are impacting noise levels in the vehicle. So, yes, if you have a customer that is only concerned about FE and not noise then yeah GM can do that too. And you really need to be able validate your FE claims are you running the US schedule? California?

Do you take those cals and run up Baker Grade with 20,000 pounds in the trailer with that cal on a 110 F day? Do you go to Kap and confirm it starts at -40 F everytime? For months on end?

So yes, there is a trade off. It is either in durability, fuel economy, noise, emissions. What you do only addresses a few of the parameters GM is legally obliged to balance. And you aren't obliged to deal with those issues, GM is.

So I'll repeat myself. Yes there is a market for what you do. I fully agree that you can get more HP with a Calibration or more FE. But if you add HP you are negatively impactiing reliability and if you want to debate field reliability vs. test reliability I'd be happy to do that in another thread.

LOL seriously RLOL. Not sure why you guys feel the need to discredit me. I understand your business and as I've said I support it. So clearly it is something that bothers you that I try to bring facts to the table that are based on where I work and what I do.

Oh, and I could go on and on.........

[Mark H]

This is a great thread. I just hope it doesn't get locked

[Steve]

To me this is the most relevant thread going right now. I was about a 1/4 inch from purchasing the performance package from Jennetty which includes a tuner, LT headers, high flow cats and CAI. This is promoted to provide 415HP at the wheels, and I believe it does. It has been my desire from day one to get 400HP at the rear wheels (without costly internal modifications). However, with this news, and not to take anything from the tuner people, I have great confidence in Number3, and I am not willing to take this chance on my car. I believe that adding the high flow cats, CAI and LT headers will get me to the 400HP I desire while potentially not voiding the warranty. I will omit the tuner at this time. So this will be my purchase from Jennetty.

Additionally - Isn't it GM that is providing the warranty? They can write the warranty any way they want. To me they are just updating the warranty, most likely for very good business reasons.