about all-season tires

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

No I didn't agree with your point. You said All seasons suck at everything, and are piss poor in all situations. I said that I believe they aren't and that I don't know "absolutely nothing" about proper tires, as in MY opinion all seasons work fine. However YOU are not qualified since you have no idea who I am or what my experience is to decide that MY opinion and my experience is BS and make an ignorant blanket statement like you did.

Judging from your second line up there I'm sure you probably do know a fair bit more than most here, you are definitely right there, but it doesn't mean you're always right.

Thank you come again.....

Yes and you are some how much more qualified to say my opinion and experience is BS and make silly statements about how all seasons are good.

My point is why compromise for less? It requires so little to get so much more out of your car, in both performance and safety.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by TheStig

Yes and you are some how much more qualified to say my opinion and experience is BS and make silly statements about how all seasons are good.

My point is why compromise for less? It requires so little to get so much more out of your car, in both performance and safety.

No you said all seasons suck which is fine that's your opinion. My issue was with your statement of those that believe otherwise don't know anything about tires, which IS BS, especially towards the person it was directed at (me).

The point as well is not everyone has the means (space) to store an extra set of rims and tires. I have a garage right now that I can barely fit the car and my 2 bicycles in. An extra set of rims ain't gonna fly, And I'm not gonna leave em in my living room (I live in an apartment). All seasons would solve my problems and IMO work fine for all occasions. I likely won't track this car and if I do then I will have to find a way to put some rims/race tires somewhere for that purpose. But I've driven all manner of cars on various tires and while Summer tires are great, there is nothing that I am or should be doing on the street that a good set of all seasons (like Pirelli PZero Neros) can't handle.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

No you said all seasons suck which is fine that's your opinion. My issue was with your statement of those that believe otherwise don't know anything about tires, which IS BS, especially towards the person it was directed at (me).

The point as well is not everyone has the means (space) to store an extra set of rims and tires. I have a garage right now that I can barely fit the car and my 2 bicycles in. An extra set of rims ain't gonna fly, And I'm not gonna leave em in my living room (I live in an apartment). All seasons would solve my problems and IMO work fine for all occasions. I likely won't track this car and if I do then I will have to find a way to put some rims/race tires somewhere for that purpose. But I've driven all manner of cars on various tires and while Summer tires are great, there is nothing that I am or should be doing on the street that a good set of all seasons (like Pirelli PZero Neros) can't handle.

Actually, the offensive quote from Mr. TheStig was when he said:

"People who use all seasons know nothing about proper tires."

That's an inappropriate and ignorant thing to say for so many reasons, and you list many of them.

I would just add that many people live in moderate climates that do see snow, but not enough to necessarily warrant snow tires. I am one of them, living in eastern CT. In my 35+ years of experience driving nothing but high performance RWD vehicles with all-season tires, I have NEVER gotten stuck in snow. It hasn't always been pretty or easy, but I've always made it home or wherever I was going.

Mr. TheStig seems to suggest that the ONLY option is always using the best equipment for the task - summer ultra performance tires for warm weather road use, winter tires for winter use, and R-compound track tires for track use. But everyone does not live in a perfect world like TheStig, with unlimited resources like he apparently has, and that's the part that he didn't take into account when he claimed that people who use all-season tires "know nothing" about tires.

It wouldn't surprise me if he thinks that anyone who drives something less expensive than a Porsche, Corvette, M3, Maserati, or Ferrari knows nothing about proper cars.

[Thwick]

Originally Posted by TheStig

Wrong. The rubber compounds are just as piss poor for snow as they are for summer performance. Performance tires are great in the summer and suck in the winter, snow tires are the opposite, all seasons suck at everything. People who use all seasons know nothing about proper tires.

I have to agree with most of this, except that i'd say people who use all seasons dont see a real winter, or just havent tried a set of snows. My dad's monte carlo got stuck the other day and he's got all seasons, and my balt on snows plowed right through like there was nothing there. i'm also lowered, and the front was actually plowing. there's no comparison, living in Canada its stupid not to get winters. The way i've always seen it is, if the person in front of you slams the brakes and has better grip than you, you're ending up in their back seat. i'd rather avoid it all together, get summers for the summer, winters for the winter.

I drove my first winter with the balt on summer only's without any real issues other than them being bald by spring. so nobody is saying its impossible, just stupid. i could have very easily slid into someone else. i just got lucky.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Actually, the offensive quote from Mr. TheStig was when he said:

"People who use all seasons know nothing about proper tires."

That's an inappropriate and ignorant thing to say for so many reasons, and you list many of them.

I would just add that many people live in moderate climates that do see snow, but not enough to necessarily warrant snow tires. I am one of them, living in eastern CT. In my 35+ years of experience driving nothing but high performance RWD vehicles with all-season tires, I have NEVER gotten stuck in snow. It hasn't always been pretty or easy, but I've always made it home or wherever I was going.

Mr. TheStig seems to suggest that the ONLY option is always using the best equipment for the task - summer ultra performance tires for warm weather road use, winter tires for winter use, and R-compound track tires for track use. But everyone does not live in a perfect world like TheStig, with unlimited resources like he apparently has, and that's the part that he didn't take into account when he claimed that people who use all-season tires "know nothing" about tires.

It wouldn't surprise me if he thinks that anyone who drives something less expensive than a Porsche, Corvette, M3, Maserati, or Ferrari knows nothing about proper cars.

Thank you, my feelings exactly, just worded better

[Thwick]

Having 2 sets may cost a bit more, but a set of snows on steelies isnt that expensive. The way i've always justified it is, you've spend tens of thousands on a car, and the only part that touches the road is the tires..... not exactly the place you wanna skimp. A good set of tires makes a world of difference.

[TheStig]

The major difference in my view from yours(Rogue Leader, wjones14) is that I believe safety has no price limit. Eeking out every last bit of performance from my car isn't my primary concern, maintaining maximum control is. And perhaps I was a bit abrasive on stating my views, this section just routinely angers me with its threads about 23" wheels that people are going to use to trash their cars, and their inability to understand the detriments from unsprung weight.

[djsnoflake]

Notice how everyone who says you need winter tires lives in Canada?(Unless you are one of those lucky hippies from British Coulumbia who only gets rain in the winter and still have the nerve to whine about it.)
I see a trend. Asides from Stig and Rogue Leader fighting, that is.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by Thwick

Having 2 sets may cost a bit more, but a set of snows on steelies isnt that expensive. The way i've always justified it is, you've spend tens of thousands on a car, and the only part that touches the road is the tires..... not exactly the place you wanna skimp. A good set of tires makes a world of difference.

Steelies to fit over 14" brembos not only size but backspacing wise can be expensive if they even exist. I don't know of any out there. Aside from the fact if you end up with a smaller wheel it will throw off your speedo/odometer, unless you can hopefully make up for it in tire size. Then of course when its NOT snowing you are driving on tires that suck on the road, and handle worse due to the larger sidewall. Or you're swapping rims and tires weekly.

I'm really sick of this response, no offense, we've heard it and responded to it a million times before. Snow Tires are a great idea in Canada, but in a light snow region where many of us live its an extra expense an a pain in the ass. Aside from the fact that sometimes you just don't have anywhere to put an extra set of tires. It would be easier for me and others to have a snow car cause at least I can leave that on the street.

Originally Posted by TheStig

The major difference in my view from yours(Rogue Leader, wjones14) is that I believe safety has no price limit. Eeking out every last bit of performance from my car isn't my primary concern, maintaining maximum control is. And perhaps I was a bit abrasive on stating my views, this section just routinely angers me with its threads about 23" wheels that people are going to use to trash their cars, and their inability to understand the detriments from unsprung weight.

I highly agree with the second part of your statement. I've seen your posts and I've seen the posts from others on this, plus even outside of here hearing this insanity sometimes about these massive rims.

See what I wrote above about Snow tires in other situations. We've gone whole winters where it snowed two days. This year it's been a lot worse, but Snow tires on anything other than snow SUCK. And while I agree that of course Snow tires are the best weapon for snow, and Summer tires are the best weapon for the street, there are alternatives with compromises that will do the job and work fine for an attentive driver. And with the advances in tire technology they really are surprisingly good for an all around. Whether you choose to believe that or not is your perogative.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Thwick

Having 2 sets may cost a bit more, but a set of snows on steelies isnt that expensive. The way i've always justified it is, you've spend tens of thousands on a car, and the only part that touches the road is the tires..... not exactly the place you wanna skimp. A good set of tires makes a world of difference.

Actually, when you think about it, the only extra expense is the wheels. Every mile you put on snow tires is a mile you don't put on your other tires.

The flip side of this is that you might not want to run cheap steelies for your winter tires -- if I ran winter tires when the weather is usually under 40, I'd have them on for half the year. At that point it ceases to be any more "temporary" than running your nice wheels with summer tires.

[Thwick]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Steelies to fit over 14" brembos not only size but backspacing wise can be expensive if they even exist. I don't know of any out there. Aside from the fact if you end up with a smaller wheel it will throw off your speedo/odometer, unless you can hopefully make up for it in tire size. Then of course when its NOT snowing you are driving on tires that suck on the road, and handle worse due to the larger sidewall. Or you're swapping rims and tires weekly.

I'm really sick of this response, no offense, we've heard it and responded to it a million times before. Snow Tires are a great idea in Canada, but in a light snow region where many of us live its an extra expense an a pain in the ass. Aside from the fact that sometimes you just don't have anywhere to put an extra set of tires. It would be easier for me and others to have a snow car cause at least I can leave that on the street.

If you're worried about brembo clearance, you've got an SS. You're paying 30K plus, and without proper tires, you're never really seeing it's potential. Thats why i phrase it that way, you're already paying a small fortune for this car, whats a little more for proper wheels and tires. Dont want the upfront cost? Tell them to add the amount to your purchase price so its worked into the payments, they'll write you a check for the excess, and you can take that somewhere and get set up. it'll end up costing you a little more each month, but you will always have the ideal wheel/tire combo. I guess what i'm getting at is that i personally feel its somewhat of a waste of 30K if you arent gonna put on the proper tires, because you're never actually seeing the potential the car has.

If its space you're worried about, then i admit, all seasons are the way to go.... but you have to realize you're sacrificing a lot. And if you're worried about tire size and speedo/odometer ratings there are tire size calculators, and you can easily get within 1-2% of the original diameter by picking the right side wall height.

And i never said EVERYONE should get snows.... wouldnt make much sense for people in florida. But if you see significant snowfall, its well worth it. if you only see a couple days of snow a year, i wouldnt even bother with all seasons, and i'd just run summers for those days. so its all dependant on where you live. i never intended to say everyone should be running snows, so sorry if it came off that way.

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I highly agree with the second part of your statement. I've seen your posts and I've seen the posts from others on this, plus even outside of here hearing this insanity sometimes about these massive rims.

See what I wrote above about Snow tires in other situations. We've gone whole winters where it snowed two days. This year it's been a lot worse, but Snow tires on anything other than snow SUCK. And while I agree that of course Snow tires are the best weapon for snow, and Summer tires are the best weapon for the street, there are alternatives with compromises that will do the job and work fine for an attentive driver. And with the advances in tire technology they really are surprisingly good for an all around. Whether you choose to believe that or not is your perogative.

They do a bit more than just work in the snow, the rubber compound they use is also designed for lower temperature adhesion which translates into better grip across the entire low temp range, with or without snow. Better than All Seasons and miles better than Summers(which should never be used in the winter).

[Rogue Leader]

I think we need to agree to disagree here or we will go back and forth forever. I agree snows and summer tires are the best tools for the job.

I believe all seasons can do the job fine, not perfect, but good enough and more than safe enough.

You disagree and feel they are worthless.

The end.

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

I think we need to agree to disagree here or we will go back and forth forever. I agree snows and summer tires are the best tools for the job.

I believe all seasons can do the job fine, not perfect, but good enough and more than safe enough.

You disagree and feel they are worthless.

The end.

For the extremely budget constrained, I could see the point of all seasons. But I'm happy to end this as well.