1LE upgrade sway setup?

[Bizaro]

check ebay for the cheap cast replicas.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Bizaro

check ebay for the cheap cast replicas.

Or the member classified sub-forum section, if you want true forged 1LE wheels. Someone is almost always selling a set.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

We developed and tested the 27/32mm bars using square wheels and tires. Using a slightly wider rear wheel helps with understeer when matched with the same size front tire. Putting a 305 or 315 is going to create more understeer, but you already know that. A 32mm rear bar or smaller front bar will help reduce thee added understeer, but will not be an optimal setup.

Car companies build their cars to understeer and this includes the Z/28 which understeers the least of the 5th Gens. Drivers are trained that ABS fixes everything. If your car is sliding, lift off the accelerator and mash down the ABS brake pedal. If the car understeers, lifting and braking work. If the car is neutral or oversteers, lifting sets the car spinning. That is why the ZL1 with staggered wheels and tires (understeers) has a 25mm front bar and the semi square 1LE (neutral) gets a 27mm front bar. They are balancing the car to understeer with a bigger front bar relative to the rear bar and wheel / tire package.

For CamaroCross and HPDE events we want a neutral to oversteer bias. Not snap oversteer, but a controllable transition to oversteer. My old 32mm rear / 27mm front did that really well. With the current bars available, we use a 24mm front SS bar with the 1LE / Zl1 28mm rear bar.

So your testing showed a 27/32mm set up on an otherwise stock 1LE will be more neutral than the factory setup (which has some understeer built in for safety)?

So does that mean that a staggered setup 1LE as I mentioned previously would need/benefit from a 25/32mm sway bar setup?

Seems in the end of the day what I really should do is get a 32mm rear bar, keep the factory 27mm front bar, and run a 285 or 295 square setup on my factory 1LE wheels, and get a DD dedicated set of replicas to run my staggered set up on the streets.

Am I picking up what you are putting down?

[Burt]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

So your testing showed a 27/32mm set up on an otherwise stock 1LE will be more neutral than the factory setup (which has some understeer built in for safety)?

So does that mean that a staggered setup 1LE as I mentioned previously would need/benefit from a 25/32mm sway bar setup?

Seems in the end of the day what I really should do is get a 32mm rear bar, keep the factory 27mm front bar, and run a 285 or 295 square setup on my factory 1LE wheels, and get a DD dedicated set of replicas to run my staggered set up on the streets.

Am I picking up what you are putting down?

Pretty well, yeah, although my only question, not trying to be rude, is why do you want more tire in the rear? A 295 is not a small tire.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

So your testing showed a 27/32mm set up on an otherwise stock 1LE will be more neutral than the factory setup (which has some understeer built in for safety)?

So does that mean that a staggered setup 1LE as I mentioned previously would need/benefit from a 25/32mm sway bar setup?

Seems in the end of the day what I really should do is get a 32mm rear bar, keep the factory 27mm front bar, and run a 285 or 295 square setup on my factory 1LE wheels, and get a DD dedicated set of replicas to run my staggered set up on the streets.

Am I picking up what you are putting down?

The 27mm bar that was paired with the 32mm bar was adjustable and set to the softest setting, but yes you are going down the right road. Mid-summer, the 1LE Permagrin Package should be available.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The 27mm bar that was paired with the 32mm bar was adjustable and set to the softest setting, but yes you are going down the right road. Mid-summer, the 1LE Permagrin Package should be available.

OHHHHH.....between that and the knuckle drop coilover package, I think I will be set!!

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The 27mm bar that was paired with the 32mm bar was adjustable and set to the softest setting, but yes you are going down the right road. Mid-summer, the 1LE Permagrin Package should be available.

OHHHHH.....between that and the knuckle drop coilover package, I think I will be set!!

[ST1LE]

OHHHHH.....between that and the knuckle drop coilover package, I think I will be set!!

[DavidCorsaro]

Instead of just feeling the need to bolt on sway bar 'x,y or z' has anyone realized the true benefits of using sway bar bushings that allow the bar to rotate freely unlike OEM? I wish more people would read between the lines as to what's really going on when going with an aftermarket bar.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by DavidCorsaro

Instead of just feeling the need to bolt on sway bar 'x,y or z' has anyone realized the true benefits of using sway bar bushings that allow the bar to rotate freely unlike OEM? I wish more people would read between the lines as to what's really going on when going with an aftermarket bar.

David, please explain what you are thinking.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Burt

Pretty well, yeah, although my only question, not trying to be rude, is why do you want more tire in the rear? A 295 is not a small tire.

Oh, not rude at all.

My reasons are somewhat methodical actually.

Firstly, I don't like the stretched look the 285 has on the 11 inch rear wheel. For the track who cares what it looks like, but for daily driving it bothers me too much.

Second, as its my DD, I want a very good all around summer tire as I live in Houston and have no concerns for cold or snow. The PSS is truly unmatched in this arena, however, they do not make a 305 in the PSS, and the 295 is quite expensive.

Third, I intend on getting a 20x9 to have a full sized spare for road trips, and the 315/35/20 PSS and 275/40/20 stock tire size have the same overall diameter. I have not found a tire that matches the OD of the 295, and as it wont save me $ I dont care anyway.

So long story short I want a 305 in the back for appearance, but will accept the 315 as I really want PSS's as long as this is my DD. LOL...it is WAY too much rubber, but it sure will look bad ass. HAHAHA...form not function in that case.

[Burt]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Oh, not rude at all.

My reasons are somewhat methodical actually.

Firstly, I don't like the stretched look the 285 has on the 11 inch rear wheel. For the track who cares what it looks like, but for daily driving it bothers me too much.

Second, as its my DD, I want a very good all around summer tire as I live in Houston and have no concerns for cold or snow. The PSS is truly unmatched in this arena, however, they do not make a 305 in the PSS, and the 295 is quite expensive.

Third, I intend on getting a 20x9 to have a full sized spare for road trips, and the 315/35/20 PSS and 275/40/20 stock tire size have the same overall diameter. I have not found a tire that matches the OD of the 295, and as it wont save me $ I dont care anyway.

So long story short I want a 305 in the back for appearance, but will accept the 315 as I really want PSS's as long as this is my DD. LOL...it is WAY too much rubber, but it sure will look bad ass. HAHAHA...form not function in that case.

Have you considered trying to buy two more front OEM wheels, so you could run a square set of 285/35 PSS without having the stretched look, and get a 275/35 to use as the full-size spare? You could sell the rears, or keep them for the track, and run the second pair of fronts on the street.

[DavidCorsaro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

David, please explain what you are thinking.

Pete, I'm referring to the most commonly over-looked aspects of the OEM bars is their usage of bound bushings. While GM may be trying to mimic a torsion beam effect with them and introduce some spring rate at the wheel, they aren't optimal in ultimately trying get the most 'bite' for a given rate bar. This becomes crucial in the rear with a Torsen and the decent torque from the LS3.

A 32mm hollow is very similar to a 28mm solid, albeit dependent on wall thickness/arm length/eyelet position. I'd be very surprised if the biggest 'gain' people tend to get from most aftermarket bars is simply from unbound poly bushings.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by DavidCorsaro

Pete, I'm referring to the most commonly over-looked aspects of the OEM bars is their usage of bound bushings. While GM may be trying to mimic a torsion beam effect with them and introduce some spring rate at the wheel, they aren't optimal in ultimately trying get the most 'bite' for a given rate bar. This becomes crucial in the rear with a Torsen and the decent torque from the LS3.

A 32mm hollow is very similar to a 28mm solid, albeit dependent on wall thickness/arm length/eyelet position. I'd be very surprised if the biggest 'gain' people tend to get from most aftermarket bars is simply from unbound poly bushings.

Do yo mean you would not be surprised the biggest gains come from unbound bushings, or am I reading it wrong?