my rant @ GM designers..

[Scalded Dog]

Originally Posted by Neoclasiccl

I had a 79 mustang with a 4 cyl and you could almost stand in the engine bay and work on it LOL.

If only they'd have put a three cylinder in that car.... THEN you'd really have some room to get all up in there!

[shank0668]

Originally Posted by Neoclasiccl

I remember the old pontiac fiero's my frend had a starter go on his and it was an 8 hour job to replace

My starter wasn't too bad, But I had the motor out anyway

[Rideskinz]

Its not the designers fault, its the engineer or group of 1000 engineers that it takes to figure out how to make your life a living hell...lol. The designers just make it look pretty on the outside, the clay modelers (like myself) make it a reality and the engineers come in and tell you it can't be done and screw everything up. Trust me, I've had my fair share of cursing at GM's engineers. Have you taken off the front bumper lately? And don't get me started on that rear diffuser. Sorry, just thought this would be a good opportunity to vent...lol

[fbodfather]

Ladies and Gentlemen -- welcome to the real world.

Notice that every manufacturer has the same issues.

There are many reasons.

One - aerodynamics -

Two - weight

Three - wind noise

Four - crashworthiness

No one wants to purposely make stuff hard to get to - after all - we do pay for warranty claims when something goes wrong - which costs us money if it's hard to get to.....

Years ago, cars were BIG -- they didn't have tons of technology on 'em - and it was easy to change a headlamp - heck, you just used a screwdriver to take off the headlamp surround and had at it........

........'cept that the air flowing around all those gaps made noise - and it caused drag (stealing fuel economy) -- and there weren't airbag sensors and 5mph bumpers and any number of other things........

I guess I could type for a couple of days explaining all of this - but stop and think a minute as to how automobiles have changed -and with the latest CAFE standards, I don't see it getting any better - I see more 'Multi-plexing' and even more aerodynamics - with smaller footprints - meaning that stuff is going to get closer together - not further apart.

Yes - I understand your frustration...believe me - I have the scars on my hands to prove it. (and the neighbors have heard me 'proclaim' some stuff when things aren't going right.......)

[CamaroSkooter]

rofl...

Proclaim away!

[liquidsmoke]

I feel your pain. I used to just think it has to be this way because the more obvious easier way would cost more but I'm not so sure about that anymore. I think it's a healthy dose of this way is cheap and this way makes it so mechanics have shit to do. It's to the point now where an average non car person can't even change their own light bulbs which is rediculous.

[awfarley]

You think GM is bad???

Go get a Volvo

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Ladies and Gentlemen -- welcome to the real world.

Notice that every manufacturer has the same issues.

There are many reasons.

One - aerodynamics -

Two - weight

Three - wind noise

Four - crashworthiness

No one wants to purposely make stuff hard to get to - after all - we do pay for warranty claims when something goes wrong - which costs us money if it's hard to get to.....

Years ago, cars were BIG -- they didn't have tons of technology on 'em - and it was easy to change a headlamp - heck, you just used a screwdriver to take off the headlamp surround and had at it........

........'cept that the air flowing around all those gaps made noise - and it caused drag (stealing fuel economy) -- and there weren't airbag sensors and 5mph bumpers and any number of other things........

I guess I could type for a couple of days explaining all of this - but stop and think a minute as to how automobiles have changed -and with the latest CAFE standards, I don't see it getting any better - I see more 'Multi-plexing' and even more aerodynamics - with smaller footprints - meaning that stuff is going to get closer together - not further apart.

Yes - I understand your frustration...believe me - I have the scars on my hands to prove it. (and the neighbors have heard me 'proclaim' some stuff when things aren't going right.......)

Well I want to thank you for acknowledging this rant.. At least there are car guys @ GM that "get it"



however... while I completely understand the hard to get to for a lot stuff, especially with regards to the motor and weight... The lights bulbs on a car are something that should be easy for the average 60 year old grandma to change, engineering it in that matter will make it a snap for car guys and gals and easier for non-techy car people..

In this case there is no reason a couple of small holes in relation to the rear lamp bolts could not have been added, there are already several back there for the wiring.. I highly doubt it would have impacted the structural integrity that much if any.

Without trying to sound like a complete ass, if a crappy company like Toyota can do it............. So can GM..

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

Well I want to thank you for acknowledging this rant.. At least there are car guys @ GM that "get it"



however... while I completely understand the hard to get to for a lot stuff, especially with regards to the motor and weight... The lights bulbs on a car are something that should be easy for the average 60 year old grandma to change, engineering it in that matter will make it a snap for car guys and gals and easier for non-techy car people..

In this case there is no reason a couple of small holes in relation to the rear lamp bolts could not have been added, there are already several back there for the wiring.. I highly doubt it would have impacted the structural integrity that much if any.

Without trying to sound like a complete ass, if a crappy company like Toyota can do it............. So can GM..

well - keep one thing in mind.....headlamps for instance as we all know, are no longer 'sealed beam' - back then, one only had to 'plug in' the headlamp.

Today, the headlamps on the car (the lens, the enclosure, the bulbs) are one of the components that take the longest to validate - remember -- tons of water being thrown at them when you're following a trailertruck in a blinding windstorm - and they can't let water in! You'd find what we do to headlamps quite amazing!

Believe it or not, the subject of maintenance comes up all the time as components are being developed. As I said in my earlier post - we have to pay dealers for warranty claims - so we know the frustration - that said, the last thing we want is a frustrated customer - so yes, we do look at things like this - but we can't always make things as easy as we - or you - would like.

[Bodih]

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

Well I want to thank you for acknowledging this rant.. At least there are car guys @ GM that "get it"



however... while I completely understand the hard to get to for a lot stuff, especially with regards to the motor and weight... The lights bulbs on a car are something that should be easy for the average 60 year old grandma to change, engineering it in that matter will make it a snap for car guys and gals and easier for non-techy car people..

In this case there is no reason a couple of small holes in relation to the rear lamp bolts could not have been added, there are already several back there for the wiring.. I highly doubt it would have impacted the structural integrity that much if any.

Without trying to sound like a complete ass, if a crappy company like Toyota can do it............. So can GM..

I agree with you on changing to the Technostalgia taillights. The bleeding stopped after a few days...

But I think what you're asking for in this case is to make it easier to mod the car (removing the taillight assy). I don't think that's tops on their list when they design it. Changing the tailight bulbs really isn't too hard; simply twist the socket and remove. Yeah it's tight, but no tools required.
Changing the backup lights is a different story!

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

well - keep one thing in mind.....headlamps for instance as we all know, are no longer 'sealed beam' - back then, one only had to 'plug in' the headlamp.

Today, the headlamps on the car (the lens, the enclosure, the bulbs) are one of the components that take the longest to validate - remember -- tons of water being thrown at them when you're following a trailertruck in a blinding windstorm - and they can't let water in! You'd find what we do to headlamps quite amazing!

Believe it or not, the subject of maintenance comes up all the time as components are being developed. As I said in my earlier post - we have to pay dealers for warranty claims - so we know the frustration - that said, the last thing we want is a frustrated customer - so yes, we do look at things like this - but we can't always make things as easy as we - or you - would like.

thank you.. I am well aware of what you probably do to head lights, I suspect it is online with what we do to BBQ grills (www.lynxgrills.com <- I work for)

yes very frustrating, but as I said, it is what it is, got it off my chest, and it doesn't change how I feel about my car or GM as a whole..

just hard to program and write DB query's for my company with painful bl;oddy knuckles..

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by Bodih

I agree with you on changing to the Technostalgia taillights. The bleeding stopped after a few days...

But I think what you're asking for in this case is to make it easier to mod the car (removing the taillight assy). I don't think that's tops on their list when they design it. Changing the tailight bulbs really isn't too hard; simply twist the socket and remove. Yeah it's tight, but no tools required.
Changing the backup lights is a different story!

no see, I can't get my hand in there to even twist the bulb retainer, that is where my rant started. My knuckles are torn to hell trying to get the bulbs out of the outer lights, my hands don't fit, my 8 year old had to do it for me..

[Bodih]

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

no see, I can't get my hand in there to even twist the bulb retainer, that is where my rant started. My knuckles are torn to hell trying to get the bulbs out of the outer lights, my hands don't fit, my 8 year old had to do it for me..

You know what they say about the size of a man's hands...

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

Originally Posted by Bodih

You know what they say about the size of a man's hands...

they wear big gloves?



no complaints from the wifey BTW..