Camaro 1LE vs Mustang GT track pack (Motortrend)

[carfansince73]

Great video! That was a close drag race!

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Ford builds a car. If it does well, GM responds by building a better one. Been that way since the beginning really...

Don't you just love competition! Look at the next Mustang in the works with an independent rear suspension. I remember the Mustang getting all the handling and acceleration praises when the 2011 GT with track pack came out vs the 2010/11 SS.

Makes you wonder how much better they can make these cars at this price point.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by doc7000

LMAO so if GM just kills the Camaro before the next Mustang gets here then we can use that same logic......

Ford was too late to the party and the car isn't built anymore....

However it is ok because there are BOSS 302 vs 1LE Camaro comparisons out there and the BOSS 302 LS is simple a good deal slower then the 1LE.

People can try to argue about the choices that Ford MADE with the Mustang and now say after the fact well no duh the Mustang lost.

How the hell is Ford late to the party when the BOSS came 2 years earlier?

GM needs to stop responding to the Mustang and benchmark the Camaro on their own standards.

[newmoon]

Looks like round table discussion:

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

You know, Motor Trend always minimizes a Camaro win over the Mustang. Do you think, for even a minute there weren't a hundred Boss 302 owners who wouldn't have loaned their Mustang to Motor Trend for a feature article? None of them would have guessed at the trouncing their car would have received.

A Camaro 1LE win over a Mustang GT was kinda....expected, but had a Camaro, same day same track, trounced a Boss 302, that would be devastating for Ford, and MT wouldn't do that.

Motor Trend's obvious tendency to favor Ford has been clear for years. Corvette against anything, as an example, loses because of it's seats despite it's huge performance advantage.

Or, why haven't they tested the 1LE against an M3?? I'm waiting for the test of a 427 Z28 against a GT500. From what I've seen, the 1/4 mile match-up might be pretty interesting between these two cars.

I wouldn't jump the gun here to quick. Had a private Boss been entered and had won the match, claims would come of it being modified. I also wouldn't jump the gun that the 1LE would have trounced the Boss, fact is we don't know. Understand that the Boss especially the LS version is a much more capable car than the GT. I will say the differance with the Boss is it's not only quick in the corners, it is extremely quick in a straight line with regular 1/4 mile times in the 12:30s, which is where most of the casual racing will be done.

[KKreme15]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

You know, Motor Trend always minimizes a Camaro win over the Mustang. Do you think, for even a minute there weren't a hundred Boss 302 owners who wouldn't have loaned their Mustang to Motor Trend for a feature article? None of them would have guessed at the trouncing their car would have received.

A Camaro 1LE win over a Mustang GT was kinda....expected, but had a Camaro, same day same track, trounced a Boss 302, that would be devastating for Ford, and MT wouldn't do that.

Motor Trend's obvious tendency to favor Ford has been clear for years. Corvette against anything, as an example, loses because of it's seats despite it's huge performance advantage.

Or, why haven't they tested the 1LE against an M3?? I'm waiting for the test of a 427 Z28 against a GT500. From what I've seen, the 1/4 mile match-up might be pretty interesting between these two cars.

I've been watching a lot of motor trend videos lately and they seem to give GM a TON of love, especially corvettes (z06/zr1)

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I wouldn't jump the gun here to quick. Had a private Boss been entered and had won the match, claims would come of it being modified. I also wouldn't jump the gun that the 1LE would have trounced the Boss, fact is we don't know. Understand that the Boss especially the LS version is a much more capable car than the GT. I will say the differance with the Boss is it's not only quick in the corners, it is extremely quick in a straight line with regular 1/4 mile times in the 12:30s, which is where most of the casual racing will be done.

Reread the thread as the 1LE has beat the Boss in test on a course.

But the Boss was "built" for the road course not the 1/4 mile. And Ford put together a 1 hour TV program telling the world that it was their best ever.

Ford rested with the Mustang due to the fact it had no competition for years. They ramped it back up once they had to compete again, but by then it was too late to add IRS to the aging chassis.

[ThaCamaroKid]

""""[QUOTE=Norm Peterson;6150686]Ford put the package together with tire size stagger that only makes sense in a normally aspirated car when it is also being sold on appearance. And when you crutch the resulting inherent understeer from the tire stagger with roll stiffness distribution and other suspension tuning to "make the numbers" you're covering an understeer tendency all the time with oversteer from something else some of the time and making the car a little trickier to drive.

No autocrosser staggers tire sizes in a front engine rear drive car, never mind by 30mm worth of section width. Neither did Chevy with the 1LE. All that does is throw away grip that could have been.

You don't suppose that the SS's tire size stagger had anything to do with the Mustang GT's getting the handling nod over it in all of the earlier ponycar comparos now, do you?"""""

The Mustangs didn't ever have a handling nod over the SS..... on 1/4 mile times the 5.0 and SS have been on par since 2011, ( dis regarding 2010 because the GT had a 4.6L ) and on the track they were = with a slight edge most of the time going to the Camaro due to the suspension. If the Camaro WAS slower, it was not by 3 seconds a lap.

I agree a staggered tire size isnt for a road course BUT, that alone isnt going to slow a car down by 3 seconds, not on a track like willow that is only 1:22-1:26 for these cars

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by KKreme15

I've been watching a lot of motor trend videos lately and they seem to give GM a TON of love, especially corvettes (z06/zr1)

Honestly they aren't really biased towards anybody.... Corvette deserves the credit motortrend gives it, look at that cars laptimes, it beats out $200k, $300k, $400k cars. Go to fastlaps laptimes, it has been around 25 tracks ( recorded there ) it is in the top 10 on all but 2, so 25 tracks, top 10 on 23 of them. AND one of these was a wet driving test.... It generally average's around 5th and this includes cars like Gumperts, Moslers, Donkervoorts, radicals. I'd say that deserves all the recognition it is getting.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

You don't suppose that the SS's tire size stagger had anything to do with the Mustang GT's getting the handling nod over it in all of the earlier ponycar comparos now, do you?

You realize handling is more than just the fact that it goes around corners right? Stock the Stock 2010 Camaro SS handles like my Jeep Liberty, in short it's like a boat, it has great grip but it has an insane amount of body roll, my stock 2003 350Z has less body roll and handles circles around my Camaro. Of course it helps that the 350Z weighs much less than the Camaro but even my Shelby feels as nimble and planted as the 350Z. My GT500 handles better than my Camaro not only because it quite literally does, but because the steering feel, grip, and body roll is a significant improvement over the SS. It also helps that the Shelby doesn't let me slide around in my seat if I take a sharp turn.

Everything I've read about the 1LE has done nothing but praise it over the stock SS. The Stock 2010/11 SS is a pig in the Handling Department, Hench why Chevy got rid of that crap steering wheel (it doesn't work in a car that is meant to handle), and updated the 2012 SS's Suspension Parts.

[ThaCamaroKid]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

You realize handling is more than just the fact that it goes around corners right? Stock the Stock 2010 Camaro SS handles like my Jeep Liberty, in short it's like a boat, it has great grip but it has an insane amount of body roll, my stock 2003 350Z has less body roll and handles circles around my Camaro. Of course it helps that the 350Z weighs much less than the Camaro but even my Shelby feels as nimble and planted as the 350Z. My GT500 handles better than my Camaro not only because it quite literally does, but because the steering feel, grip, and body roll is a significant improvement over the SS. It also helps that the Shelby doesn't let me slide around in my seat if I take a sharp turn.

Everything I've read about the 1LE has done nothing but praise it over the stock SS. The Stock 2010/11 SS is a pig in the Handling Department, Hench why Chevy got rid of that crap steering wheel (it doesn't work in a car that is meant to handle), and updated the 2012 SS's Suspension Parts.

That quote was his so I am not sure if you are responding to what he said or what I said, I started at "the mustangs". Obviously handling means more than going around the next corner... However the standard SS wasnt built for a track, it's built for the road, Tell me your Shelby takes a pot hole better than the Camaro, cause if you said it does I would just call and say nothing more.... I am not trying to be rude but the GT500 and grip/handling don't exactly go together. I like the looks and engine in that car but not whats hidden underneath. Regardless that isnt what this is about, SS & GT = road cars with not emmence thought on the track, 1LE GT/trackpack/302 = track in mind much more than the SS & GT. Saying a Camaro handles like a Jeep is like saying a Mosler handles like a Corvette. There is no comparison there... The SS does show it's weight, but it was never trying to hide it, until the 1LE.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

The Mustangs didn't ever have a handling nod over the SS

Go back to the model year 2010 - 2011 time frame.

I have zero interest in putting any year Camaro down, but I will back up what I posted above. Two items clipped from different sources ought to be enough, and I wasn't even looking hard.

Example 1: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...g-gt-50-page-3

Originally Posted by Car and Driver April 2010

But those are just numbers. On mountain back roads and the Buttonwillow road circuit, the dynamic distinction between the Camaro and the Mustang was akin to the difference between a fighting bull and a star matador. The Mustang felt much lighter than the heavy Chevy, quicker in transient responses, and much quicker out of corners, live rear-axle suspension notwithstanding.

Example 2: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

Yes, this one pits a 2011 Mustang against 2010's, but mostly that just brings the Mustang up to the low 400's HP party. That time, MT wasn't even letting price differences get in the way of matching these three up.

The Mustang ran away from its portlier pursuers in all of our handling tests, circling the Figure-8 course in just 24.7 sec at 0.77 g, fully a half-second ahead of the Camaro and a second quicker than the big Dodge. Lateral grip measured at a legitimate sports car level of 0.97 g. Here the more interesting statistic may be the Dodge's ability to match the lighter, fatter-tired Camaro at 0.92 g each. The Challenger also generated an average of 0.71 g on the skidpad -- just 0.02 g under the Camaro -- while lapping a half-second slower.

The 1LE really, REALLY needed to fix that ↑↑↑ , no?


Norm

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by ThaCamaroKid

That quote was his so I am not sure if you are responding to what he said or what I said, I started at "the mustangs". Obviously handling means more than going around the next corner... However the standard SS wasnt built for a track, it's built for the road, Tell me your Shelby takes a pot hole better than the Camaro, cause if you said it does I would just call and say nothing more.... I am not trying to be rude but the GT500 and grip/handling don't exactly go together. I like the looks and engine in that car but not whats hidden underneath. Regardless that isnt what this is about, SS & GT = road cars with not emmence thought on the track, 1LE GT/trackpack/302 = track in mind much more than the SS & GT. Saying a Camaro handles like a Jeep is like saying a Mosler handles like a Corvette. There is no comparison there... The SS does show it's weight, but it was never trying to hide it, until the 1LE.

I apologize the way you had bolded it made me think it was your words.

As per what I said about the Jeep: I was comparing body roll. The Camaro has a retarded amount of body roll stock. Where as the 1LE and ZL1 solve this problem.

Obviously the GT500 isn't built for handling as its main objective but it absolutely does handle, obviously not as well as a Boss or ZL1 but it does have better handling and grip than a non 1LE SS. I drive my GT500 as a daily driver and have complaints about comfort over pot holes, neither car is particularly stellar over pot holes. In my opinion that is. Neither car is more or less comfortable than the other. I would much prefer the stiffer 1LE over both.

[MBS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It really doesn't bother me. But thanks for asking.

I'd rather see any shortcomings in the car that I own demonstrated so I can do something about them than be just another fanboy and let my feelings get hurt. In this particular case, I think I've even had some of my own thoughts and part of my car's current state of modification validated.

Quite frankly, it took longer than I expected for the Camaros to consistently pick off the Mustangs as the handling ponycar of choice.


Norm

Ok But how do you Mod the overall looks of the Mustang? because the Mustang has never been the ponycar of choice in that department, When i see one I

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by MBS

Ok But how do you Mod the overall looks of the Mustang? because the Mustang has never been the ponycar of choice in that department, When i see one I

Looks are completely subjective. Want proof? I think the V6 front end is missing something and makes the Camaro look less aggressive compared to the SS and ZL1. Same for the pre-13 Mustangs. The GT and GT500 look 1000x better than their V6 counterparts.

It's all personal though lots of people hate the mail slot...