Resonator & Muffler delete = Power loss?

[2ss black]

hi may be i can of some help i had a muffler delete and x pipe for 4 month now so with that said. you did not lose any power it move to the to the midrang here is what i did to get it back. if you use shell gas stop and fill up with sunoco 93 and do a fuse pull it work for me and a friend who also is a member of this site ps i also put a k&n air filter in my stock air box

[1badtie]

i cant even understand what your trying to say man haha

[camarohead]

i have the solo mach x. its for the ls3, which does not have mufflers at the back. when i first installed it, i too thought i had lost some power(TORQUE), but i did the fuse pull and it was back up to speed. guess after the install, it just needed a reset.

[Wilburbeest]

Originally Posted by Camarorss350

I recently deleted my resonators and mufflers... Sounds awesome!! Love the loudness! But someone mentioned that i may lose power since there is no back pressure except the cats now. They also said the LS motors are designed to be used with some sort of back pressure. Is this correct?

i will be getting a dyno tune soon and im thinking this will cure the popping and any "power loss"... is this also correct?


My car is a 1ss manual btw...

I'm not going to call your friend a dumbass because he may be very knowledgeable, albeit misguided in this area, but he really needs to think about the logic of his statement. Sometimes on carbed engines if you do free flowing headers/exhaust and don't re-jet the carb you can end up running lean. That will definitely make you loose power and possibly burn valves, but that's not relevant in this case.

Back pressure is what you would get if you stuffed a rag in your exhaust. Not something you want. Positive delta pressure, however, is important because that is what helps suck your exhaust through the pipes. If you did something totally like WTF ridiculous like headers with 2.5" primaries and 5" collectors into straight pipes you'd have a problem because positive delta pressure would be nearly nonexistent, thus lowering velocity, in turn causing your exhaust to flow less even though it's technically capable of flowing more. You would have to do something pretty ridiculous with your exhaust on a 6.2L for that to ever be an issue though. By something pretty ridiculous I mean it doesn't even exist unless you had somebody make it for you (like my example above). With reasonably sized piping, especially with a crossover, you can never loose power from lowering back pressure, only gain. I suggest you read this article because it is the best I've seen on the subject.

http://my.prostreetonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=1639

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

Mine lost all kinds of power being. Ted at Jannety said I needed and X-Pipe to get the cylinder scavenging and engine balace back. Lost anywhere from 30-50HP and 30-TRQ to the back wheels. She would not spin them at all. Put X-Pipe in and she is spinning them again and quicker she got.

The X-Pipe will quiet it down some but mine is still loud with the GMPP Exhaust.

First of all, sorry, there's no way in the world you lost that much power from that alone. Also notice he said you needed SCAVENGING (venturi effect, also called positive delta pressure) NOT BACK-PRESSURE. I'm not sure what all you did but are you sure it could not have affected the O2 sensors or caused the computer to have to relearn? Either one of those would kill your low end because your a/f ratio would be off.

[Milidin]

Just had my mufflers replaced with straight pipe on my SS. Without a doubt feels like I lost power. That could either be because I actually did or it just feels like it because the car is louder. Will be putting in on the dyno Mon to compare to my stock dyno.

[kmcd]

I have cutouts behind the OEM cats, and I can tell you my 1/4-mile times are consistently .1 to .2 sec faster with the cutouts open. As long as your A/F ratio approximates lambda, there's no way you lose power by flowing more air. You may move the power curve to the right, but there's no way you lose it.


EDIT: You can make the argument that the x-pipe will flow more air than straight pipes because of the scavenging effect, but there's no way you lose power by deleting the mufflers.

[mikeSS]

guys stop looking at what you gain at the track or at WOT. when i put high flow cats on, i could feel little power lost not up top, but down low RPMs. i know the cats are different, but still when ever you get more free flowing its at the low RPMs is where you will feel less.

[kmcd]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

guys stop looking at what you gain at the track or at WOT. when i put high flow cats on, i could feel little power lost not up top, but down low RPMs. i know the cats are different, but still when ever you get more free flowing its at the low RPMs is where you will feel less.

That's what this means:

Originally Posted by kmcd

...You may move the power curve to the right,...

The point is you will not decrease your peak HP by flowing more air, as long as your A/F ratio is still good.

[axis]

Damn, this debate is STILL going on. Does anyone not know how to use google?

For one, a muffler delete does absolutely nothing except make your car louder. You take off a pair of straight through mufflers and replace them with staight pipes.

Second, it's been shown by Ted and a few others that the LS motors like to have a crossover inline. Whether it's a H or X pipe is for the most part irrelevant, as long as you have one.

I've yet to see a dyno of new Camaro losing HP because they made their exhaust more free flowing. Teds comparison of the three sizes of the same LT's showed absolutely zero difference down low but the high end was more on the bigger ones. You can't listen to the "old timers" on this one since they are comparing 60's thru 80's cars that were carb'd. Carb'd motors CAN NOT adjust for increased or decreased airflow so they will lose power if you change the airflow from being either too rich or too lean. A modern PCM will adjust the fuel to keep your AFM within the proper range, as long as it's not a massive change. We have people running around here with LT's, no cats and no mufflers that run just fine and picked up a good amount of HP/Tq. That alone should show you that the PCM can make a good amount of adjustments without a problem. Bottom line is, backpressue of any kind isn't needed or wanted. The more free flowing you can make your exhaust, the better off you are, HP wise. This holds true till you've eliminated the exhaust as the bottleneck.

[kmcd]

Originally Posted by axis

Damn, this debate is STILL going on. Does anyone not know how to use google?

For one, a muffler delete does absolutely nothing except make your car louder. You take off a pair of straight through mufflers and replace them with staight pipes.

Second, it's been shown by Ted and a few others that the LS motors like to have a crossover inline. Whether it's a H or X pipe is for the most part irrelevant, as long as you have one.

I've yet to see a dyno of new Camaro losing HP because they made their exhaust more free flowing. Teds comparison of the three sizes of the same LT's showed absolutely zero difference down low but the high end was more on the bigger ones. You can't listen to the "old timers" on this one since they are comparing 60's thru 80's cars that were carb'd. Carb'd motors CAN NOT adjust for increased or decreased airflow so they will lose power if you change the airflow from being either too rich or too lean. A modern PCM will adjust the fuel to keep your AFM within the proper range, as long as it's not a massive change. We have people running around here with LT's, no cats and no mufflers that run just fine and picked up a good amount of HP/Tq. That alone should show you that the PCM can make a good amount of adjustments without a problem. Bottom line is, backpressue of any kind isn't needed or wanted. The more free flowing you can make your exhaust, the better off you are, HP wise. This holds true till you've eliminated the exhaust as the bottleneck.

Good enough for me. Let's call that a wrap and have a frosty beverage.

[Revo1]

You've still got your massive cats dude. Any loss of power/torque due to the muffler/res delete is your imagination.

[alvinmiles]

Just deleted my muffler and resonator, i freaking love it. Sounds like an ss should sound. Noticed no loss of power at all.

[alvinmiles]

Before


During (muffler delete)


After (muffler & resonator delete)

[transFedition]

Alvin,

Is your SS a L99?