Junkman...Help!!

[alyssasdad]

Sorry if this is long. Ive got a friend Rob. Hes got a red SS2. He keeps the car very clean. He has clayed and waxed it. When your in dirrect sunlight, you can see a lot of little scratches(swirls? I dont think so). Only in bright sunlight. We were looking at it yesturday and I remembered seeing a couple of post on doing a flash test with a camera. They said it would make it easier to see the scratches and they would look a lot worse. So I used 2 cameras,my wifes high dollar camera with 2 different flashes and a $100 point and shoot. The flash was always on. I took many many photos. I held the cameras anywhere from 2 to 12 inches away. I took them at diff. angles. From directly over the car to angled from the side. I took them out in the sunlight and in the shade of his garage. NONE of the photos showed anything!!! Not one scratch. If you looked at the photo only, youd never no the car had any little scratches at all. I exspected it to look BAD!!! The camera lied!! Anyway,Rob knows they are there,I know they are there. No matter what the camera said. I mean the car was shining so much it was hard to look at it in the sun!! Even the little scratches were shining!!! Anyway,what does he do to get rid of them? One of us will be getting a PC 7424XP soon. Now I know your going to recommend Adams,but since he is the kind of guy that buys all his car supplies at one of the local part stores(but the good stuff)what does he need to use? What kind of pads?polish? Honestly,this info is just as much for me as it is him.Cuz I know that down the road Ill be needing to know this stuff too. He is just willing to use his car so we both can learn from you!! Thanks a lot!!

[Good_Times]

If you are in bright sunlight and these small scratches seem to move around as you look at different angles then these are the famous swirls that detailers are always talking about. Seems the average person never pays attention to them but once a car guy or gal notices them it is easy to quickly become OCD about them. There is no way to escape them completely. You can delay their return with a few small steps. Using a two bucket wash is a start and proper washing and drying equipment is a must. After existing swirls and imperfections are removed then a good wax or sealant will help and a nano coating such as opti-coat will go a long way in delaying the return of the swirls etc.
Before jumping off the deep end and buying a arm load of products and equipment think of what your goal is.Is this a daily driver or weekend cruiser or a trailer queen for show only. The PC is a good da as are many of the others out there on the market today. Many vendors on-line as well as brick and mortar stores will offer a bundle of machine , pads and backing plates. This can save you money IF you do your homework and buy the assortment best suited to what you want to accomplish. Take a visit to one of the many detailing forums on-line and research products. Vendors are always offering sales of 10-15 %. Some forums allow members to sell and or trade samples of products so that you can experiment without mortgaging the farm. I know that I'm not junkman but I have slept at a holiday inn a few times.lol.

PS: There are also threads on some of these forums about how to capture swirls with you camera. I would post some links but I don't think it is allowed.

[alyssasdad]

Originally Posted by Good_Times

If you are in bright sunlight and these small scratches seem to move around as you look at different angles then these are the famous swirls that detailers are always talking about. Seems the average person never pays attention to them but once a car guy or gal notices them it is easy to quickly become OCD about them. There is no way to escape them completely. You can delay their return with a few small steps. Using a two bucket wash is a start and proper washing and drying equipment is a must. After existing swirls and imperfections are removed then a good wax or sealant will help and a nano coating such as opti-coat will go a long way in delaying the return of the swirls etc.
Before jumping off the deep end and buying a arm load of products and equipment think of what your goal is.Is this a daily driver or weekend cruiser or a trailer queen for show only. The PC is a good da as are many of the others out there on the market today. Many vendors on-line as well as brick and mortar stores will offer a bundle of machine , pads and backing plates. This can save you money IF you do your homework and buy the assortment best suited to what you want to accomplish. Take a visit to one of the many detailing forums on-line and research products. Vendors are always offering sales of 10-15 %. Some forums allow members to sell and or trade samples of products so that you can experiment without mortgaging the farm. I know that I'm not junkman but I have slept at a holiday inn a few times.lol.

PS: There are also threads on some of these forums about how to capture swirls with you camera. I would post some links but I don't think it is allowed.

Thanks a lot man!!! Give me a hint. Did you mean on C5 or on a different website alltogether.

[Junkman2008]

First off, on taking pictures of swirls. You don't want to be too close to the paint as your camera cannot focus on the surface of the car in automatic mode within 12 inches. Within 12", you have to go to a manual mode and use some type of macro mode. So do your pictures at your camera's full resolution and at least 24" away. Once you take the picture and zoom in, you'll see plenty of swirls.

Here are two pictures. One at the distance that I took it at and one that has been cropped down to the flash bust.





You can see the swirls in both pics but you can really see how nasty they are in that cropped shot. You are probably too close to the paint with yours.

As for how to fix it, you're a bit out of the loop with what I will recommend. You should take a look at my latest videos on You Tube. Before I can recommend anything, I need to know what choices his store has. If he is adamant about buying from there, I need to know what they offer. If they only offer crap, I won't be of no help. If they carry at least the Meguiar's Mirror Glaze line, I can help. There are all kinds of ways to do this, all you have to do is choose one and master it.

[Todd@Autopia]

Originally Posted by alyssasdad

Sorry if this is long. Ive got a friend Rob. Hes got a red SS2. He keeps the car very clean. He has clayed and waxed it. When your in dirrect sunlight, you can see a lot of little scratches(swirls? I dont think so). Only in bright sunlight. We were looking at it yesturday and I remembered seeing a couple of post on doing a flash test with a camera. They said it would make it easier to see the scratches and they would look a lot worse. So I used 2 cameras,my wifes high dollar camera with 2 different flashes and a $100 point and shoot. The flash was always on. I took many many photos. I held the cameras anywhere from 2 to 12 inches away. I took them at diff. angles. From directly over the car to angled from the side. I took them out in the sunlight and in the shade of his garage. NONE of the photos showed anything!!! Not one scratch. If you looked at the photo only, youd never no the car had any little scratches at all. I exspected it to look BAD!!! The camera lied!! Anyway,Rob knows they are there,I know they are there. No matter what the camera said. I mean the car was shining so much it was hard to look at it in the sun!! Even the little scratches were shining!!! Anyway,what does he do to get rid of them? One of us will be getting a PC 7424XP soon. Now I know your going to recommend Adams,but since he is the kind of guy that buys all his car supplies at one of the local part stores(but the good stuff)what does he need to use? What kind of pads?polish? Honestly,this info is just as much for me as it is him.Cuz I know that down the road Ill be needing to know this stuff too. He is just willing to use his car so we both can learn from you!! Thanks a lot!!

Red is one of the most difficult colors to capture paint defects on. It is because of the way camera's meter colors in gray scale. It just doesn't see a big difference between the scratch mark and the paint color.

Try manual focusing. If you are not sure how to do this, then hold your finger on the paint, push the shutter (picture button) half way down to let it focus, then remove your finger and finish depressing the button. Even then red can be difficult.

[Junkman2008]

I've never had any trouble finding swirls with any color, including red. It's all in the camera and the photographer's ability. You don't need a high dollar camera either. This camera only cost $350.

Long shot:




Zoomed:



The way light bounces off of paint damage is the same no matter what color it is.

[Todd@Autopia]

Junkman... I admire your willingness to offer advice...

In the picture that shows the swirl marks the paint looks pink because the photo is overexposed. That is because the camera's sensors are having a difficult time seeing the difference.

The way light bounces off of paint damage is the same no matter what color it is.

While I'm not sure what you mean (from a technical standpoint this isn't correct) but I think you are saying paint damage is paint damage. I agree.

Your camera, which is reading data, has a hard time with red, distinguishing paint defects.

Yes a good photographer can over expose his photo and show the damage, on red, in certain lighting.

I have 1000s of pictures just like the one your posted above, the only difference is I have 1000's of after pictures in identical lighting, showing flawless paint afterwards as well.

[Junkman2008]

Maybe you need to adjust your monitor. It's red on my screen with a hint of orange at the most. It definitely doesn't look pink. Since I use Photoshop on occasion, I have both of my computer monitors calibrated. So again, maybe you need to do the same.

By the way, I admire your attempt at being condescending but trust me, you don't rank. Here's that hood fixed. I can definitely match your "thousands".

[Todd@Autopia]

Originally Posted by Junkman2008

Maybe you need to adjust your monitor. It's red on my screen with a hint of orange at the most. It definitely doesn't look pink. Since I use Photoshop on occasion, I have both of my computer monitors calibrated. So again, maybe you need to do the same.

By the way, I admire your attempt at being condescending but trust me, you don't rank. Here's that hood fixed. I can definitely match your "thousands".

Like you said, pictures from far away don't show the condition. Your before picture did a great job of showing the condition of the paint, your after picture (according to you "pictures from far away don't") doesn't.

Do you have any pictures of the hood fixed from the same angle and range as the before picture? I mean in your thousands the best you can do is show the after picture from an angle that you admit before doesn't show anything?

[Junkman2008]

Do you honestly think it's that easy?



Here's your picture, and here's the story. That was done at the Chrysler Nationals, in direct sunlight using a PC. That was just two passes with SHR so that I could show the owner of the car what the PC could do. Of all people, I don't even believe that you are questioning my ability. Now stop hijacking the OP's thread, again. We're done here.

[Todd@Autopia]

Originally Posted by Junkman2008

Do you honestly think it's that easy?



Here's your picture, and here's the story. That was done at the Chrysler Nationals, in direct sunlight using a PC. That was just two passes with SHR so that I could show the owner of the car what the PC could do. Of all people, I don't even believe that you are questioning my ability. Now stop hijacking the OP's thread, again. We're done here.

That's a cropped photo of the first photo, and the focus is not on the surface of the paint. I asked for a picture similar to the one that shows the condition of the paint before, not a cropped version off a photo that shows scratches visible but out of focus.

Its obvious that you want to turn this into a pissing contest when I tried to offer advice to the OP about capturing swirl marks on paint.

As far as questioning your ability, I think for somebody who has never detailed professionally full-time you do a great work. I admire your ability to teach people techniques that have been around for years by adding your unique flavor and you seem like a great guy.

However, I am a sponsor on this forum, and I only aimed to offer the OP factual advice, based on working at a photo store in college and taking photography classes at the same time.

[Good_Times]

[CamaroDreams07]

Best thread ever.

*In life, there are no nandroids*

[Ltdodge]

Originally Posted by Todd@Autopia

Junkman... I admire your willingness to offer advice...

In the picture that shows the swirl marks the paint looks pink because the photo is overexposed. That is because the camera's sensors are having a difficult time seeing the difference.



While I'm not sure what you mean (from a technical standpoint this isn't correct) but I think you are saying paint damage is paint damage. I agree.

Your camera, which is reading data, has a hard time with red, distinguishing paint defects.

Yes a good photographer can over expose his photo and show the damage, on red, in certain lighting.

I have 1000s of pictures just like the one your posted above, the only difference is I have 1000's of after pictures in identical lighting, showing flawless paint afterwards as well.

it looks red on my screen......