Firearms Section

[11BEE]

Originally Posted by SimpleGreen

Nice stuff.

I'm currently rocking a Springfield Amory EMP in 9MM. I have an IWB holster on the way as I have my CHP now. I really like it, beautiful little pistol but I've been considering swapping it out for something higher cap, less safeties and doodads, and typically more reliable. I had an XD9SC before and and M&P9 Pro so I think the next thing I'll try will be a Gen 4 Glock 19.

Also in the collection is a Bravo Company/Spike Tactical AR15 w/ Magpul accessories, a Marlin 795 .22LR rifle for pest control, an old school Rem 870 Wingmaster w/ 18" barrel and bead sight (home defense) and a pretty Smith & Wesson Mod 60 357 revolver in stainless.

I had a Springfield Amory 'Loaded' 1911 but sold it because I just didn't shoot it well. I've since concentrated on smaller and midsize 9mm pistols and 38/357 revolvers because I handle them a lot nicer.

I make take some pics tomorrow.

I have been considering buying a EMP 9MM for a while now. I have a full size steel 1911 and it is just too heavy to carry. What keeps stopping me is the safeties (I am not used to them and afraid in a need I would forget to disengage) and I am a Glock guy. I have never had a Glock misfire or jam in any way. They are just plain reliable and that is what I trust my life to. You will not be disappointed.

[SimpleGreen]

Originally Posted by 11BEE

I have been considering buying a EMP 9MM for a while now. I have a full size steel 1911 and it is just too heavy to carry. What keeps stopping me is the safeties (I am not used to them and afraid in a need I would forget to disengage) and I am a Glock guy. I have never had a Glock misfire or jam in any way. They are just plain reliable and that is what I trust my life to. You will not be disappointed.

The EMP is a surprisingly accurate bugger and easy to control as well. I bought it second hand from a friend. I'm going to stop by the local gun shop this weekend and molest some other stuff.

[D Day Dog]

I want to get the Kel-Tec 12 gauge 15 rnd. KSG for my ride, but where to mount it?

[11BEE]

Trunk mount it and get one of these. Remember a pistol is just to be used until you get to your long gun.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...at3373&topnav=

I just installed one in my master bathroom for my Mosberg 500. It works great. I am looking into their pistol mounts and maybe I will month them in the car.

[Lawdog1911]

Anyone know you can point a gun at someone legally? I was at the business end of 2 Assult rifles that I knew of.., (Tactical SKS,and AR).

[turbo monte]

my toys

[11BEE]

Originally Posted by Lawdog1911

Anyone know you can point a gun at someone legally? I was at the business end of 2 Assult rifles that I knew of.., (Tactical SKS,and AR).

We need more information. Generally, it is considered an act of deadly force to even brandish a gun and point it at someone. For example, here in Texas pointing a gun at someone is considered the use of deadly force since the end result of pointing the gun can reasonably lead to death. If you did nothing at all, I can be put in jail for the use of deadly force.

I guess the question is, what were you doing at the time?

[PT145SS]

Originally Posted by 11BEE

We need more information. Generally, it is considered an act of deadly force to even brandish a gun and point it at someone. For example, here in Texas pointing a gun at someone is considered the use of deadly force since the end result of pointing the gun can reasonably lead to death. If you did nothing at all, I can be put in jail for the use of deadly force.

I guess the question is, what were you doing at the time?

I'm not so sure about that in Texas. Of course the situation will dictate the legallity. Note below that one can brandish if force... not even deadly force... is justified. E.G. Someone gets physical with me, puch or shoving (force) Than I would be justified in brandishing (force to meet force) along as my sole intention is to create the apprehension that I might use deadly force to stop the aggressor from using force.

Texas Penal Code Chapter 9.

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

[Lawdog1911]

Yesterday, me and my Wife were out at my inlaws land in a creek bed with about 12 foot high banks and we set up a plinking target and I was teaching my wife to shoot. We shot about 200 rounds out of her Smith &Wesson .22 Pistol at the taget about 30 ft away and the target about 10ft away from the high bank.

All the sudden I hear rustling in the bushes above us and I see this one guy with his SKS Tactical Assult Rifle aimed at me and he is yelling, "Drop your weapons, Drop your weapons!!!!" I finally see him and a second guy with an AR Rifle aimed at us as well, fingers on triggers in the SWAT aiming stance ready to shoot!!!

I dropped the pistol and he is still yelling at us and asking for us to identify ourselves all the while pointing guns at us. We are at the bottom of the creek bed and they are standing over us. There was a third guy but he was stilll hidden. My wife was calling 911, but no reception there. Lasted about 10 minutes, seemed like forever with the guns on us.

Our property is on one side of the creek and thiers a ways down the creek not even across from us where they were. They heard our shots but they were saying our rounds were zipping by thier house (impossible cause of the angle of the creek bed) I appologized if a round made it there and ,I had to, guns pointed at me!

I felt so violated and my wife was really scared! Were they in the right to do that to us? We were on our (my wifes Uncle's) property and they were the ones tresspassing on our nieghbors property.

We couldn't sleep last night after the incident. Still feel "Weird". All I kept thinking about if one of them had an itchy trigger finger and accidently set off a round at us, that they all would "open up" on us and leave us there deep in the woods.

[11BEE]

Originally Posted by PT145SS

I'm not so sure about that in Texas. Of course the situation will dictate the legallity. Note below that one can brandish if force... not even deadly force... is justified. E.G. Someone gets physical with me, puch or shoving (force) Than I would be justified in brandishing (force to meet force) along as my sole intention is to create the apprehension that I might use deadly force to stop the aggressor from using force.

Texas Penal Code Chapter 9.

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

I agree, however you are not making clear the rest of the code in Section C. That section says what justifies the force. In summary, you can use deadly force if you reasonably feel deadly force is being used upon you, you are trying to stop a rape, or you are trying to stop someone from stealing from your place of habitation or vehicle. If someone just walks up to my door and I have no reason to suspect they are trying to rob me or use deadly force on me, then I cannot even show my weapon.

More importantly the code says what a person cannot use deadly force for. read subsection (b) below.

SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or
(C) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery;
(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and
(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.
(b) The use of force against another is not justified:
(1) in response to verbal provocation alone;
(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
(3) if the actor consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other;
(4) if the actor provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
(A) the actor abandons the encounter, or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely abandon the encounter; and
(B) the other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the actor; or
(5) if the actor sought an explanation from or discussion with the other person concerning the actor's differences with the other person while the actor was:
(A) carrying a weapon in violation of Section 46.02; or
(B) possessing or transporting a weapon in violation of Section 46.05.
(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:
(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer's (or other person's) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
(d) The use of deadly force is not justified under this subchapter except as provided in Sections 9.32, 9.33, and 9.34.
(e) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the force is used is not required to retreat before using force as described by this section.
(f) For purposes of Subsection (a), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (e) reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

[11BEE]

Originally Posted by Lawdog1911

Yesterday, me and my Wife were out at my inlaws land in a creek bed with about 12 foot high banks and we set up a plinking target and I was teaching my wife to shoot. We shot about 200 rounds out of her Smith &Wesson .22 Pistol at the taget about 30 ft away and the target about 10ft away from the high bank.

All the sudden I hear rustling in the bushes above us and I see this one guy with his SKS Tactical Assult Rifle aimed at me and he is yelling, "Drop your weapons, Drop your weapons!!!!" I finally see him and a second guy with an AR Rifle aimed at us as well, fingers on triggers in the SWAT aiming stance ready to shoot!!!

I dropped the pistol and he is still yelling at us and asking for us to identify ourselves all the while pointing guns at us. We are at the bottom of the creek bed and they are standing over us. There was a third guy but he was stilll hidden. My wife was calling 911, but no reception there. Lasted about 10 minutes, seemed like forever with the guns on us.

Our property is on one side of the creek and thiers a ways down the creek not even across from us where they were. They heard our shots but they were saying our rounds were zipping by thier house (impossible cause of the angle of the creek bed) I appologized if a round made it there and ,I had to, guns pointed at me!

I felt so violated and my wife was really scared! Were they in the right to do that to us? We were on our (my wifes Uncle's) property and they were the ones tresspassing on our nieghbors property.

We couldn't sleep last night after the incident. Still feel "Weird". All I kept thinking about if one of them had an itchy trigger finger and accidently set off a round at us, that they all would "open up" on us and leave us there deep in the woods.

DAMN!!!!!! Now that is scary. I hope you have washed your undies. I would be if it were me. I have been on the business end of a gun before and it has a very humbling effect.

Their justification is questionable in my opinion. If they were on land that they owned or had permission to carry on, and they can prove an errant bullet did pass by their house (causing them to feel deadly force was being used on them), they might. However, to come onto your uncles property with guns, I think that is a violation of the penal code on their part. I AM NOT A LAWYER!

Remember that you always have to know what is behind your barrel and make sure you know where your rounds are going.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Lawdog1911

Yesterday, me and my Wife were out at my inlaws land in a creek bed with about 12 foot high banks and we set up a plinking target and I was teaching my wife to shoot. We shot about 200 rounds out of her Smith &Wesson .22 Pistol at the taget about 30 ft away and the target about 10ft away from the high bank.

All the sudden I hear rustling in the bushes above us and I see this one guy with his SKS Tactical Assult Rifle aimed at me and he is yelling, "Drop your weapons, Drop your weapons!!!!" I finally see him and a second guy with an AR Rifle aimed at us as well, fingers on triggers in the SWAT aiming stance ready to shoot!!!

I dropped the pistol and he is still yelling at us and asking for us to identify ourselves all the while pointing guns at us. We are at the bottom of the creek bed and they are standing over us. There was a third guy but he was stilll hidden. My wife was calling 911, but no reception there. Lasted about 10 minutes, seemed like forever with the guns on us.

Our property is on one side of the creek and thiers a ways down the creek not even across from us where they were. They heard our shots but they were saying our rounds were zipping by thier house (impossible cause of the angle of the creek bed) I appologized if a round made it there and ,I had to, guns pointed at me!

I felt so violated and my wife was really scared! Were they in the right to do that to us? We were on our (my wifes Uncle's) property and they were the ones tresspassing on our nieghbors property.

We couldn't sleep last night after the incident. Still feel "Weird". All I kept thinking about if one of them had an itchy trigger finger and accidently set off a round at us, that they all would "open up" on us and leave us there deep in the woods.

I would be at the court house right now filing charges, they just committed a felony and you would have had every right to kill them. No DA in the world would dream of filling charges it you did. They charged onto your land with guns drawn in a threatening manner. In a court of law this is viewed as "intent to kill" and the punishment for such is almost the same as actual murder.

If some poor soul tried this on me, you can bet your behind they would be leaving my property in a body bag. Unless it is an officer doing so with a good reason, I don't care who it is or their reason for doing so. If you point a gun at me or my family, your dead.

[CamaroSkooter]

Right, cause you'd be able to shoot and kill three well-armed guys with a .22 pistol before they ever got a shot off. It's called "pick your battles."

Lawdog, what kind of "plinking" target were you using? Was it metallic? Some metallic targets can have strange ricochet effects on projectiles, so it's very possible your shots could have been ricocheting and traveling towards a neighboring house. However, if you were physically observing every one of your rounds going to ground and not ricocheting, then you did nothing wrong.

In that particular instance though, the best thing you could have done is not drop your firearm but put it in a none threatening position (i.e. in a holster or slide locked back and pointing to ground), put yourself between you and your wife and tell her to slowly begin backing up and away from the intruders.

Unless they identify themselves as law enforcement or owners of the property they are currently standing on, they don't have any right to approach you in the manner that they did. They are allowed to trespass on someone's property if the owner has given them express consent, however they would have to verbally convey this to you. Otherwise, you are safe to assume they are trespassing on property that they do not own. At which point, they are committing some serious crimes and you have every right to contact your local law enforcement to report it.

As your backing away, you should tell your wife to continue to attempt contacting 911 while "retreating." You are seriously outgunned, outmanned, and need to get away from the situation as fast as possible, preferably without firing a shot.

[Milk 1027]

Got my holster today. Looks and feels awesome. I'll have to wait until late June to be able to use it with my actual weapon, but I'm using one that is close to it in fit to break it in for now.