Not about the Camaro abuse thread so much

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by SSBlack

Yahoo News picked it up.

Wow! http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/motorami...152707580.html

[habunow1]

If the mod did it just to keep it from getting out of control it had a side effect of burying it and stop awareness of the issue unless a search is done. Maybe the last post on the thread could have said that and there would not have been so much questions of cencorship.

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

Since I don't work for GM, or get paid to work on this site. I (or the rest of the moderation team that have real jobs to attend to) will get to your complaints as soon as I (we) can.

There are days that I just love being a volunteer...

Well then, feel free to un-volunteer yourself?

I'm glad you guys have "real" jobs to attend to since the rest of us don't and aren't making the time to post on something we deem important, right?

Really C5? Someone with this attitude is who you want representing you?

You SURE?

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by z28racer

Wow ! Are you saying we do not have real Jobs?????

To me, this is how it came across.

[lgKido]

Originally Posted by SSBlack

Yahoo News picked it up.

I saw that. Pandora's Box and the Can of Worms have been opened......

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

Let's all report Vinny.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by awfarley

I can somewhat understand people being upset with moderators closing threads with no explanation but the truth is most of the ones that get closed end up heading south quickly otherwise. Online forums with arguements quickly become pissing contests with everyone flexing their "internet muscles".

I'd much rather a forum be over moderated than under moderated. At least they care about the quality of people and information that gets to remain on the site.

You gotta look at both sides here.

We, the Mods, try to "nip things in the bud" when it comes to threads that are going downhill. It's a lot easier to preemptively close a thread than it is to delete it and hand out infractions .

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

Yes they do. Because sponsors = money. And money = business.

Trust me, they would rather have 100 ripped off members than lose 1 single sponsor's cash flow.

Ever notice threads about issues with Camaros are moved almost immediately, but useless threads are left up for WEEKS?
They get moved because we have a subforum specifically for those kind of threads: Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls

And any thread that says "X company took my money and makes a crap product!" somehow gets wiped off the face of the Earth?
Again, those threads get moved because we have a specific subforum for those kind of threads: Vendor and Seller review / feedback / experiences

As Belle said, that's the way this place is run so if we don't like it, we will have to leave. But I, for one, disagree with it entirely. Now watch. Just saying THAT will probably get me banned.

No one is getting banned. At least not today, and not for anything related to this.

Originally Posted by TBone

I think we deserve an explanation.

We have supported this website for years. Supported both the vendors and owners of the website via buying stuff off this website as well as using it and going to events like Camarofest.

Now one of our own is in a situation that needs our support through social media and someone here on Camaro5 are denying us the right to help him or even discuss what has happened to him. This did not happen to a Mustang or Challenger owner, it happened to a Camaro owner. Is this not Camaro5.com? Our home on the web?

I could understand if the thread had gotten out of hand but it was, and still is, mostly civil and we had a Mod keeping an eye on us. (Thanks Stieger, you get it) Let us continue to discuss this in an adult manner like we have been because this is in the national spotlight and closing this while the nation is looking at us is really foolish. The next headline will read, "Camaro5 won't let it's members discuss bad manners by dealership of one of it's member's!". How is that going to look?

T.

Please see my earlier post in this thread explaining why, or as far as I know why it was locked.

Originally Posted by big papa

If this is a community, a quick "why it was closed" should be posted.

Please see my earlier post in this thread. I explained why, or explained the best I could anyway.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Site is afraid of getting sued and doesn't want involved with someone else's fight. It's as plain as the nose on your face. I'm no lawyer so I don't really know if they could be sued anyway. If it was my site, I would say post away in this situation. The op has the facts. I don't how C5 could be affected.

Although, C5 does get accused of being in bed with GM. It's things like closing threads like those in question that make one wonder if there isn't something to that. In that case, I can see why it got closed.

Doesn't matter anyway. It's a privately owned site and they don't owe anyone a reason for doing what they do. Like they always say themselves, If you don't like don't let the door hit you in the butt when you leave.

Camaro5 is not in bed with GM. Do we have a relationship with Chevrolet, Al O. , Scott S. , and Mike J. just to name a few? Yes. Is Chevrolet corporate in any way involved with something that is a Dealership issue? No.

Please, I'm honestly begging you guys at this point, can we cut with the GM/Camaro5 conspiracy theories already?

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

It was either the OP who requested it closed because a lawyer recommended not saying anything to anyone until completion of a lawsuit or it was this site's owners. The owners may have some kind of relationship with GM as it has been hinted at. Whether this relationship is financially driven or information-ally driven, it wouldn't matter. If any type of relationship exists, a video and thread making GM/Dealerships look terrible could do nothing but hurt the established relationship between GM and C5.

This relationship has negative and positive attributes. It means this site has a degree of damage control and censorship to it. The positive attribute is that GM sees this site as a marketing and business opportunity. We get special information and GM participation in events and ultimately new product development.

Take it as you want but the best positive is that we can reflect on what we like and dislike about our cars as well as reflect on what we would want in a future Camaro/GM car.

In essence, this site gives you a voice that GM would not have otherwise heard of. If we have to let them save face and maintain a positive business image in the process, then it really is not a bad trade off.

Hope that answers your question.

Thank you for helping answer people's question(s).

Originally Posted by habunow1

The orginal post is easy to find on the internet but the question here was just posed to question what is best practices on this matter. What responsibility does Camaro 5 have to the members and other sponsers to be honest even if it is not always what a sponsor wants to hear. 1st admendment or censorship by fourms aside, would a sponsor/dealer of products not want the the chance to answer bad press instead of having the thread removed/closed. Once it is out there you can not make it disappear just by closing the post.

I am curious what the people selling on this site thinks.

This is exactly why we have a Vendor Feedback section, so member's can post their experiences and vendors can respond, with hopes that they can work everything out.

Originally Posted by z28racer

I like this site, but the sensorship is out of control! Makes you question where you live? If they dont agree with you in the sligtest way they will threaten to Ban you. Oh Oh this could be my last post!

No one is getting banned.

Originally Posted by TBone

This is why these posts get so far out of control is folks lose sight of the original issue.

It is NOT about the legality of the recording. It is NOT about GM looking bad since this is clearly about the Dealership, Best Chevrolet, and they are separate business entity.

It is about a fellow Camaro5 member who had been wronged and our inability to express our support to/for him.

Those bashing GM are not getting it. Those questioning the legalities of the recording are not getting it. IMHO! This is about showing support for a member in his time of need. A time when social media could be his greatest ally.

If Camaro5 does not want to support their members as we have supported them, the least they could do is let us know why they have chosen to turn their back on their community.

T.

Please don't accuse me of not caring for the OP of that thread. I spent an hour and a half hunting down Josh Jooper because the OP had mentioned he'd like to know who Josh was. Anytime a member on Camaro5 has an issue with something I try to answer/help them to the best of my ability. To say that we don't care about our members is honestly just plain hurtful.

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

I expect we will not get a clear answer...because I expect Cam5 is, indeed, in bed with GM.

Someone said that a positive of that is the forum gives you a voice GM would have otherwise not heard. Well, not if that voice is quickly silenced.

The member who posted up the original thread had a legitimate issue with a GM dealer. The ONLY reason Cam5 mods would close said thread would be their contractual obligation to silence any negative postings and/or comments about GM as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If this were not the case, why not let people post? With the national attention this is getting, it could catapult the site into the national spotlight with news media potentially quoting members of the forum in support of the member in question. But NO. Rather than do the right thing, the mods have decided to brush this member's issues under the rug and turn the other cheek.

It's sickening to say the least because we are still expected to support this site, but the site refuses to do the same for us.

I've been saying for a long time that the censorship here is running absolutely rampant, but this is, by far, the biggest act of I've seen since I've been on here.

Either bring back the original, legitimate thread, and get off GM's nuts, or put a disclaimer up saying "Welcome to Camaro5....sponsored by GM. No negative comments/threads about GM or GM dealerships will be tolerated."

I'm disappointed..and more than a little .

There are plenty of negative comments about dealers and GM. Heck we have a whole sticky devoted to Dealers to AVOID because they over charge and have horrible service. No one is brushing this issue under the rug, the thread was not deleted. It was simply locked temporarily. This thread is still open isn't it? No one is trying to brush this under the rug.

Originally Posted by habunow1

If this site is all about the sponsors and not the members as some would belive. Why would not the sponsors take issue with the removal. It is the reputation of the site they chose to be associated with that can become tarnished and that would devalue the effect of there paid sponsorship. Sponsors your thoughts.

Again, Camaro5 cares about its members first. Which is why the threads bashing vendors don't get deleted. We want members to speak up if they had a bad experience, etc.

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

That's no reason for it to be gone...the forum is corpor....er...privately owned, and posts and comments are in no way a reflection of the owners' personal views. In a lawsuit of any kind, they would be in no way accountable for the postings of their members.

Not true. Let's say you're driving a delivery truck and hit a pedestrian. They can sue you and your employer as your employer is responsible for your actions. Camaro5 can be held accountable for what is posted by our members.

Originally Posted by habunow1

I hope this thread stay open even if the orginal question gets answered. Everone be NICE not to offend anyone.

This thread is more about accountability. Can I come on here as a sponsor and sell caned air and claim that it converts a 1LT into a 2SS and have all threads disputing my claims be closed as not to have anyone figure me out.

If so Im not upset that in two years of owning my Camaro it have not tranformed one single time as in (whats that movie).

I dont believed the tape was altered so whats the problem with notifing others in bad practice.

If you pay the sponsorship fee than by all means sell canned air with the promises of magically gaining 2 cylinders. Though once a member posts a thread in the Vendors Feedback subforum you'll be SOL.

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

I'm not going to speak out of place here.. But as someone who has never gotten a warning or ban on this site.

Closing of that thread is rediculous. It did not break rules IMHO. It's not like it was political or porn. Or bashing a member.

This was a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed by the dealership or GM because GM is the one who honors warranty claims / pays the dealership for warranty repairs.

My only guess to close it was because someone / this site is getting paid by a party and it was requested to be removed to keep "their end of the contract"

Camaro5 is not in bed with GM. I don't know how many times I have to say that.

Originally Posted by Infinite-T

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute, if this were true, why did they only LOCK the tread instead of deleting it? If they were trying to hide or silence it, why is it still there? Why not delete it entirely? It is still there, all that was said is still visible here on the forum. Although I can't say I really agree with it, I think they they probably locked it (possibly just temporarily according to one mod) before it got totally derailed and turned into YouTube style posts with rediculously bad language, name calling, and useless prattle. Just look at some of the responses posted there and you'll see what I mean.

Like I said, if they were trying to hide it, why not delete it so it is no longer visible rather than just locking it from further posts? I'm sure as the OP gets more info, or more resolve, he can make a new post with that information.

Now with that said, I feel bad for William (the OP) and really hope this gets resolved for him. I did see a post on one of the other sites from someone claiming to be a GM rep sending him a PM to talk to him about it. I hope so. I am happy that now, more than ever, consumers have more power. When something like this happens, within hours 100s of thousands or even millions of people can know about it. I'm sure the pressure is on that dealer now to do the write thing a few grand (or whatever) for them to make it right is better than losing many thousands in potential customers.

Thank you for understanding.

Originally Posted by Mr. iNCREDIBLE

it's not deleted because it is being linked back from several sites, including jalopnik, deleting it would break those links..

locking it IMO makes sense though, otherwise hundreds if not thousands of non-Camaro owners with come here and sign up just to post their 2 cents into the thread..

That could possibly be the reason the thread was locked. I did not lock it so I don't know the exact reason as to why it was locked.

Originally Posted by Infinite-T

Agreed, that was somewhat my point. If other wanted to "cover it up" they probably would just delete it. Like you said, they probably just locked it before it got out of control "YouTube comment style".

Thank you.

Originally Posted by habunow1

If the mod did it just to keep it from getting out of control it had a side effect of burying it and stop awareness of the issue unless a search is done. Maybe the last post on the thread could have said that and there would not have been so much questions of cencorship.

I just bumped the original thread for you. If you wanted to keep the thread alive you could put a hyper link to it in your opening post.

[95birdible]

If this site was truly in bed with GM, the convertible forum would be closed and I would of been banned faster than Bolt can run the 100. As long as the facts are stated and you have proof to back them up, the post will stay. It is when it strays from the original post or some hatred, slander, or libel start getting posted is when the post's get locked or deleted. I have had some nice conversations with the mods about my Convertible posts and they have all remained. This group is no different than the one I started on Facebook. I set the rules, abide by them, or it gets deleted. If it continues, you get banned. That simple.

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by z28racer

Wow ! Are you saying we do not have real Jobs?????

Originally Posted by ShowSStopper

To me, this is how it came across.

No, and no. I'm just explaining why you don't have an answer yet. Good lord people. So much hate on this forum lately.

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by stieger

We, the Mods, try to "nip things in the bud" when it comes to threads that are going downhill. It's a lot easier to preemptively close a thread than it is to delete it and hand out infractions .



No one is getting banned. At least not today, and not for anything related to this.


Please see my earlier post in this thread explaining why, or as far as I know why it was locked.


Please see my earlier post in this thread. I explained why, or explained the best I could anyway.


Camaro5 is not in bed with GM. Do we have a relationship with Chevrolet, Al O. , Scott S. , and Mike J. just to name a few? Yes. Is Chevrolet corporate in any way involved with something that is a Dealership issue? No.

Please, I'm honestly begging you guys at this point, can we cut with the GM/Camaro5 conspiracy theories already?



Thank you for helping answer people's question(s).



This is exactly why we have a Vendor Feedback section, so member's can post their experiences and vendors can respond, with hopes that they can work everything out.


No one is getting banned.


Please don't accuse me of not caring for the OP of that thread. I spent an hour and a half hunting down Josh Jooper because the OP had mentioned he'd like to know who Josh was. Anytime a member on Camaro5 has an issue with something I try to answer/help them to the best of my ability. To say that we don't care about our members is honestly just plain hurtful.


There are plenty of negative comments about dealers and GM. Heck we have a whole sticky devoted to Dealers to AVOID because they over charge and have horrible service. No one is brushing this issue under the rug, the thread was not deleted. It was simply locked temporarily. This thread is still open isn't it? No one is trying to brush this under the rug.



Again, Camaro5 cares about its members first. Which is why the threads bashing vendors don't get deleted. We want members to speak up if they had a bad experience, etc.


Not true. Let's say you're driving a delivery truck and hit a pedestrian. They can sue you and your employer as your employer is responsible for your actions. Camaro5 can be held accountable for what is posted by our members.


If you pay the sponsorship fee than by all means sell canned air with the promises of magically gaining 2 cylinders. Though once a member posts a thread in the Vendors Feedback subforum you'll be SOL.


Camaro5 is not in bed with GM. I don't know how many times I have to say that.



Thank you for understanding.


That could possibly be the reason the thread was locked. I did not lock it so I don't know the exact reason as to why it was locked.


Thank you.


I just bumped the original thread for you. If you wanted to keep the thread alive you could put a hyper link to it in your opening post.

Firstly, thank you for the reply...I know replying to all that took alot of time, so thanks.

But, you are wrong if you believe that C5 can be held accountable for member posts. Can FaceBook? No. Various other auto forums? No.

But if that's you guys' stance on it, however incorrect it may be, then it is what it is.

At least you took the time to reply. I respect that.

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

No, and no. I'm just explaining why you don't have an answer yet. Good lord people. So much hate on this forum lately.

GOSH WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU INSULTING US AND INSINUATING WE DON'T HAVE JOBS?! YOU ARE SUCH A JERK OMG

[Camaro_Corvette]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

GOSH WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU INSULTING US AND INSINUATING WE DON'T HAVE JOBS?! YOU ARE SUCH A JERK OMG

Gah, I got a case of the mondays going.

[ShowSStopper]

Originally Posted by 2010SS2SS

Well! Just got a warning for my comparison of the sight administration to the current Government...Can't say it wasn't expected and really don't give a chit less. Those that want to stay around here and be censored and deal with archaic rules like no comments on street racing or don't out a mod or vendor can have it.

Below is a copy of my response to the mods....

So mods can make comments and publicly out peoples facebook and phone numbers but compare the fact the you guys chose to censor a topic that was relavent to whats happening in our government and I get a warning? LOL!
Plenty of other sights to go to for cars and information and not have to read through stupid ass "dealerships suck" and my god they did that, SUE them" posts...

Wow...just...wow. One comment, a short one at that, and..

That's an unwarranted warning if I ever saw one.

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Camaro_Corvette

Gah, I got a case of the mondays going.