What the 2012 Camaro needs-but won't get

[larietrope]

Forget the Ford haters club for a moment and consider the marketing that's working for them and Camaro needs.
It seems there are groups at Chevrolet not knowing what each other are doing but have authority to make decisions.
Mustang has two transmissions-one engine. The LS3 should be offered with automatic. Rear end ratios can be be ordered from the factory. All models can get the same exterior color. Mustang GT or GT premium-very clear on options. Price. You can buy the 5.0 in GT form for under 30,000 dollars.
Chevrolet set the bar on it's weight which is a handicap. More horsepower needs to be applied to stay ahead of Mustang.
As for all the Mustangs you see on the road, good or bad, Mustang pursevered where GM discontinued the Camaro because- are you ready?
It wasn't selling. Same for Firebird.
Now we will live without Pontiac and Oldsmobile and you can buy a Cadillac that will blow away a Corvette and Camaro. Do we really need a high performance Cadillac ? How many of you are drooling for one ?
My wish is that Chevrolet would quit tip-toeing around with performance for Camaros and offer some packages that would put it well in front of Mustangs.

[Murph0408]

a bit confused. you want them to stop tip-toeing around with performance, keep in mind this came out in 2009 when the mustang was a v6 210 hp car, and a 315hp v8. the camaro was made to crush those numbers and it did. if you ask me they didn't tip-toe around at all, ford just happened to wake up and improve themselves a year or so later.

and besides, you mention price. if they keep building this thing up it's just going to get more expensive. yes, a cadillac CTS-V can beat the camaro - have you seen the price of that thing? i mean really, how many people are going to go buy 40 thousand dollar camaros? that is the road you're going down if you keep adding horsepower. i'm not so sure the rest of the world (outside this forum) is THAT concerned with the drag-strip racing times. they are concerned with LOOKS and maybe mileage. so even though they are building "muscle" cars they need to keep those factors in mind in order to appeal to the masses and sell more.

horsepower = money. and besides, if the Z28 is a monster and has higher HP numbers, then the big spenders can go get that one. if the message you are trying to broadcast is that they need to SELL MORE camaros, then they should focus on gas mileage and quality as opposed to throwing more HP at it

[yellowLS]

Originally Posted by Murph0408

a bit confused. you want them to stop tip-toeing around with performance, keep in mind this came out in 2009 when the mustang was a v6 210 hp car, and a 315hp v8. the camaro was made to crush those numbers and it did. if you ask me they didn't tip-toe around at all, ford just happened to wake up and improve themselves a year or so later.

and besides, you mention price. if they keep building this thing up it's just going to get more expensive. yes, a cadillac CTS-V can beat the camaro - have you seen the price of that thing? i mean really, how many people are going to go buy 40 thousand dollar camaros? that is the road you're going down if you keep adding horsepower. i'm not so sure the rest of the world (outside this forum) is THAT concerned with the drag-strip racing times. they are concerned with LOOKS and maybe mileage. so even though they are building "muscle" cars they need to keep those factors in mind in order to appeal to the masses and sell more.

horsepower = money. and besides, if the Z28 is a monster and has higher HP numbers, then the big spenders can go get that one. if the message you are trying to broadcast is that they need to SELL MORE camaros, then they should focus on gas mileage and quality as opposed to throwing more HP at it

[Scruffage]

I sure wouldn't mind having a CTS-V for a family car.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by larietrope

Forget the Ford haters club for a moment and consider the marketing that's working for them and Camaro needs.
It seems there are groups at Chevrolet not knowing what each other are doing but have authority to make decisions.
Mustang has two transmissions-one engine. The LS3 should be offered with automatic. Rear end ratios can be be ordered from the factory. All models can get the same exterior color. Mustang GT or GT premium-very clear on options. Price. You can buy the 5.0 in GT form for under 30,000 dollars.
Chevrolet set the bar on it's weight which is a handicap. More horsepower needs to be applied to stay ahead of Mustang.
As for all the Mustangs you see on the road, good or bad, Mustang pursevered where GM discontinued the Camaro because- are you ready?
It wasn't selling. Same for Firebird.
Now we will live without Pontiac and Oldsmobile and you can buy a Cadillac that will blow away a Corvette and Camaro. Do we really need a high performance Cadillac ? How many of you are drooling for one ?
My wish is that Chevrolet would quit tip-toeing around with performance for Camaros and offer some packages that would put it well in front of Mustangs.

LS3 can't be offered with the automatic because of CAFE and the gas guzzler tax. Contact your state representatives if you want to get rid of those, good luck.

Yes, we need high-performance Cadillacs. Why? Because there are M-series BMWs and AMG-class Mercedes Benzes. Cadillac is finally getting the respect it deserves in the luxury market and it's because of the V-series cars.

And yes, I drool over the V-series cars every time I see one and would take one over a Camaro any day.

[1BADLS3]

To the OP's defense, GM is still quite arrogant and I don't think the company has fully learned it's lesson, despite its revival by the US Government.

GM is producing great vehicles these days, but there still seems to be some of that pig-headed resistance to some fairly simple needs/wants of consumers.

The LS3 should be the only engine for the SS -- if it's a fit issue, GM needs to modify the car to accomodate an LS3 with an automatic versus running two lines of engines, inventory, assembly, etc.

The Camaro appeals to a technologically savvy crowd; I don't care what GM says about OnStar, there needs to be an in-dash nav. While the current 'infotainment' setup is adequate, Ford's already upping the ante with touch-screen controls and full nav screens. There isn't a single reason why GM shouldn't offer a full nav option in a $35,000 car.

I honestly think the LS needs to die. There is no benefit to selling a stripped down car with steel wheels when it's only missing an option or two compared to a base LT. Mustangs don't run around with plastic trim rings on the wheels; the Camaro shouldn't have to either. I'd say offer the LS or base with a proper wheel package.

--- having said that, though, I love the car in its current form. I just want GM to really market this thing and get it out there, be a successful company.

[Hawgredcamaro]

I'm also pretty sure Ford is not worried about the Cadillac either. That was a move to punch at the German guys. Price it against the AMG or M-series and they are right in the ballpark. GM is doing what they need to do to move forward and I agree with most of what they are doing!

[DarthNacho08]

the l99 and the ls3 are the same engine, the only difference is a smaller cam and AFM in the l99

[qkslvr]

Originally Posted by larietrope

As for all the Mustangs you see on the road, good or bad, Mustang pursevered where GM discontinued the Camaro because- are you ready?
It wasn't selling. Same for Firebird.
Now we will live without Pontiac and Oldsmobile and you can buy a Cadillac that will blow away a Corvette and Camaro. Do we really need a high performance Cadillac ? How many of you are drooling for one ?
My wish is that Chevrolet would quit tip-toeing around with performance for Camaros and offer some packages that would put it well in front of Mustangs.

Drooling over a new CTS-V yes… yes I am, and this coming from a former CTS-V owner…. I traded in my 07 V ( which I will never forget BADASS car ) for my SS… Is it the same… no. Is one better then the other… depends. Each is for a certain person. The V series is a awesome luxury car, but thats just it. LUXURY, and trying to compare one to the other is like comparing A M5 to a 3 series. The new camaro on the other hand is a sports car, a pure sports car for the everyday guy.

I personally like to see the competition between Ford and GM. Its what keeps us wanting more and more. GM could build a factory camaro that would smoke the Mustang. but then Ford would just come back and build something else. And just like the Supersnake and the gt 500 there are plenty of GM authorized places building Super camaros. You can order any of these from dealers all over the nation.

[TaylorRyanSS]

Originally Posted by larietrope

Do we really need a high performance Cadillac ? How many of you are drooling for one ?
.

Yes and I am

[M6HuggerSS]

Originally Posted by larietrope

Forget the Ford haters club for a moment and consider the marketing that's working for them and Camaro needs.
It seems there are groups at Chevrolet not knowing what each other are doing but have authority to make decisions.
Mustang has two transmissions-one engine. The LS3 should be offered with automatic. Rear end ratios can be be ordered from the factory. All models can get the same exterior color. Mustang GT or GT premium-very clear on options. Price. You can buy the 5.0 in GT form for under 30,000 dollars.
Chevrolet set the bar on it's weight which is a handicap. More horsepower needs to be applied to stay ahead of Mustang.
As for all the Mustangs you see on the road, good or bad, Mustang pursevered where GM discontinued the Camaro because- are you ready?
It wasn't selling. Same for Firebird.
Now we will live without Pontiac and Oldsmobile and you can buy a Cadillac that will blow away a Corvette and Camaro. Do we really need a high performance Cadillac ? How many of you are drooling for one ?
My wish is that Chevrolet would quit tip-toeing around with performance for Camaros and offer some packages that would put it well in front of Mustangs.

you seem a little off base with the caddy comment. the V-series are BAD_ASS. and ANY car guy an appresiate what they have done.

i will agree with you, there are some improvments that could be made, and have yet to see them yet...

options/improvments ID LIKE TO SEE.

-rear diff gear ration options...
-staged suspension options... at least one or two.
-wider rear wheels and tires
-coil overs
-competition seat option
-a better upgraded wheel option... the 21's they offer look like shit.

thats all for now..

[LED Crazy]

Originally Posted by 1BADLS3

To the OP's defense, GM is still quite arrogant and I don't think the company has fully learned it's lesson, despite its revival by the US Government.

GM is producing great vehicles these days, but there still seems to be some of that pig-headed resistance to some fairly simple needs/wants of consumers.

The LS3 should be the only engine for the SS -- if it's a fit issue, GM needs to modify the car to accomodate an LS3 with an automatic versus running two lines of engines, inventory, assembly, etc.

The Camaro appeals to a technologically savvy crowd; I don't care what GM says about OnStar, there needs to be an in-dash nav. While the current 'infotainment' setup is adequate, Ford's already upping the ante with touch-screen controls and full nav screens. There isn't a single reason why GM shouldn't offer a full nav option in a $35,000 car.

I honestly think the LS needs to die. There is no benefit to selling a stripped down car with steel wheels when it's only missing an option or two compared to a base LT. Mustangs don't run around with plastic trim rings on the wheels; the Camaro shouldn't have to either. I'd say offer the LS or base with a proper wheel package.

--- having said that, though, I love the car in its current form. I just want GM to really market this thing and get it out there, be a successful company.

+1 those LS rims are disgusting. They look very cheap IMO.

[Ghost1LE]

I think GM is right on with the Horsepower range, especially for the price range of the Camaro, BUT I do feel like they need to change the way they have their options set up. I agree with the two posts above me that the LS is just horrible, those Rims make me sad every time i see a camaro with them. I definitely would love an in-dash Nav and that is definitely something that is needed. Everyone can say oh it's a muscle car it's not a luxury car, but why not have both, it shouldn't be too much more maybe a grand or two and it's definitely worth it to have as an option. I also did not like their 21" wheels, I'm very happy with my 20's but they need a better upgraded wheel option along with a comfort package that ford has. I am a Camaro owner, and I chose it over the Mustang, and I don't regret it but in the future when I decide to upgrade, I'd hope to see better options.

[BUMBLE-B-TUNA]

Originally Posted by M6HuggerSS

you seem a little off base with the caddy comment. the V-series are BAD_ASS. and ANY car guy an appresiate what they have done.

i will agree with you, there are some improvments that could be made, and have yet to see them yet...

options/improvments ID LIKE TO SEE.

-rear diff gear ration options...
-staged suspension options... at least one or two.
-wider rear wheels and tires
-coil overs
-competition seat option
-a better upgraded wheel option... the 21's they offer look like shit.

thats all for now..