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Old 04-12-2009, 03:47 PM   #29
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Extended warranties,life and disability insurance,gap insurance,etc. are in some state offered to customers by law.In other words if I don't offer you gap insurance and you total your car but didn't get offered you'd be pissed ,so would I.It's another part of the buying process,as much as we don't like it.To the dealership that tricks customers ,look at Bill Heard,he thought he was to big for his britches,where's he at? In the car shopping experience the most you can hope for,find a courteous and helpful salesman,find a vehicle you like,get a fair price and be respected after the sale.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by RPO_Z28 View Post
Hopefully this article should be written about ALL businesses and not just the auto industry. How would it work when other industries worked and made little or no money because of articles like this? It would be nice to go into a restaurant and get the filet mignon for the price of a burger, or lobster for the price of a fish stick. God forbid the dealer makes a little money. No wonder the auto industry is in trouble. Profit is NOT a dirty word.
I'm confused... You're either sending mixed messages or you missed the point of this thread. I absolutely want to see the dealership make good money. Just don't want VIN etching when I never asked for it. (please offer it to me first)

Your following two posts are EXACTLY what this post is about and what we wish to avoid no matter what the industry. Being informed is what any smart buyer does, and I do appreciate what you have done for this forum. You are one of the VERY BEST out there... I just think you missed this one, probably due to all the complaining you must obviously deal with all the time. Please dont' take this the wrong way... I was just suprised by your answer.

I'm paying MSRP which should be a fair deal for all and I sincerly hope you can make a few bucks and get the volume to really make a difference in your business.

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The $275 is a made up charge for additional profit. They may as well have charged you $275 OVER MSRP. Same thing. You should check with your local AG. In New York, that is illegal to charge that fee.
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I JUST NOTICED $282.50 FOR BILLING AND CLERICAL FEES !!

You have just paid over $500 over MSRP. Congrats! You've been officially hosed.

Seriously, you need to clarify those fees with someone in your state.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:37 PM   #31
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If dealers have already agreed to sell the car at MSRP, why should there be any negotiations going on? I can understand if they try to add other things that are not needed and I know that i wouldn't stand for such things myself. For the dealers, you guys have so much ammunition to use against the buyer (by this I mean years of experience doing your job ), I think it would be fair for the buyers to bring some ammo of their own. I don't think that they are trying to tell you how to do your job, they are just trying to get the best deal.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:29 PM   #32
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Ok, this is a little off-topic and maybe I am retarded, but what is the purpose of VIN etching? I dont understand how it deters thieves...
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Old 04-13-2009, 12:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by sac-au-lait View Post
Extended warranties,life and disability insurance,gap insurance,etc. are in some state offered to customers by law.In other words if I don't offer you gap insurance and you total your car but didn't get offered you'd be pissed ,so would I.It's another part of the buying process,as much as we don't like it.To the dealership that tricks customers ,look at Bill Heard,he thought he was to big for his britches,where's he at? In the car shopping experience the most you can hope for,find a courteous and helpful salesman,find a vehicle you like,get a fair price and be respected after the sale.
+1

some states it is law that you must be offered certain services to customers.

Car buyers just seem to like being upset about whatever a dealership does. We get complaints from people about being offer or recomment insurances/warranties/etc. and then we have threads from car buyers upset because the dealership doesn't recommend certain mainetenence issues (tire rotations)/etc.. People are LUCKY to be getting MSRP right now and we have ton's of threads complaining of dealerships not accepting disounts and such. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The dealerships never seem to do the right thing in the eyes of car buyers.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:26 AM   #34
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I agree with you 100%. I don't believe the article is necessarily saying people are stupid and incapable of making decisions. Most people are simply lazy, particularly when it comes to any activity that requires thinking. This article and others like it are not even close to the source of any problems with auto manufacturers or dealerships though, it's simply one of the symptoms of a poorly educated population.



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I love how people read that crap and think suddenly they are the worlds best negotiator. Nothing worse then when you are trying to work with someone and they think they are smart by picking out a car and negotiating a price.

BIG CLUE FOR THE COMMON BUYER. a good salespro will ask if you are payign cash or financing for a reason. We have all spent hours with someone who thought they were clever by lying to us about paying cash and negotiated a sales price. then when you go to finish the deal and they "decide" to finance and we lose the deal because they're payments are 70/mnth more then they could afford and you just blew most of your saturday with the new found negotiation king.

hate to break it to you people, but your average customer is 10 times worse than your average salespro.
I don't think it's an issue with either salepros or buyers as a whole being bad it's just a simple issue really, "Most people are stupid." That's all.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:30 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by RPO_Z28 View Post
Hopefully this article should be written about ALL businesses and not just the auto industry. How would it work when other industries worked and made little or no money because of articles like this? It would be nice to go into a restaurant and get the filet mignon for the price of a burger, or lobster for the price of a fish stick. God forbid the dealer makes a little money. No wonder the auto industry is in trouble. Profit is NOT a dirty word.

In fact, the article is saying that shoppers are stupid and can't make decisions on their own. If you can't understand clearly how to buy a car, stay out of the showroom or have a lawyer read all of the fine print before you sign it.

Okay, so one thing we can all agree upon is that in many cases the car selling/buying experience is an adversarial one. If you're a buyer, it's the dealer's fault. If your a car salesman, it's the buyer's fault. Both sides lie. It's all a matter of perspective. Which leads us to the question, who is responsible for creating this monster? I believe that it is partially the manufacturer's fault but mostly the dealer's fault.

Ask yourself these questions:
1. Why doesn't the invoice reflect the true cost of the vehicle? I would bet that the restaurant's invoice for the filet is exactly what the restaurant pays. Who are they trying to fool with a false invoice?
2. Why didn't the "No Dicker Sticker" ever catch on? Why is the dealer so eager to "negotiate"?
3. Who advertises great deals only to change the story when you walk in the showroom? Who puts those ridiculous ads on Sunday morning TV?
4. Who experiences high turnover rates?
5. Dealer Principles tend to be wealthy individuals. Many dealers have built beautiful facilities. How have they managed this on such small margins?
6. Why are there so many dealer locations?

It seems to me that reforming the selling/buying experience would only benefit the dealer.... unless they're hiding something...

Having said all that, dealers have the right to make as much as they can, although they should do so honestly. And buyers have the right to negotiate the best deal that they can for themselves, also honestly. But it'll NEVER happen... LOL
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:36 PM   #36
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5. Dealer Principles tend to be wealthy individuals. Many dealers have built beautiful facilities. How have they managed this on such small margins?
6. Why are there so many dealer locations?

It seems to me that reforming the selling/buying experience would only benefit the dealer.... unless they're hiding something...
Considering your reasons 5 and 6, I'd say they don't need any additional benefit.

My best friend did it the way I wish I could do it. He knew what he wanted, and he called dealers for bids on it. The dealer who gave him the lowest bid got the sale. It was a quick, no-BS sale for them, and he got the best price. They made a moderate profit and didn't have to waste an extra minute on him.
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:17 AM   #37
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This is ground control to MajorTom, Commencing countdown, engines on. Sorry I couldn't resist. Still rockin' there in STL with KSHE-95 and Sweetmeat?

Very good info. that all informed buyers should know. Thanks!
please help where are you getting all your order info.I have a 2ss/rs/m6/infero orange on order since 2/23/09 and can't find out a del date
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Old 06-10-2009, 07:42 AM   #38
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please help where are you getting all your order info.I have a 2ss/rs/m6/infero orange on order since 2/23/09 and can't find out a del date
Use the PM system, or (this is nuts hang on!!!).....

Search.
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