Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
TireRack
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-01-2012, 06:18 PM   #1
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Alignment woes

My '12 1SS goes in for the third time in 5 weeks, so they can try yet again to get the car's alignment sorted out

To go straight down any road...highway, any lane, road crowned or not, back road, anything- the wheel has to be held slightly to the right, not quite at 1 o'clock. Been like this since I got it, at 44 miles. To say that this makes the car busy on the highway is an understatement. I probably seem like a drunk driver sometimes because the car requires constant attention to travel in it's lane

They have dialed in the alignment numbers twice. No joy. Now they want to try different front wheels and tires, from another SS.

Anyone else have this issue? Honestly, the car won't go 50 yards without drifting from it's lane if you hold the wheel straight. Never had any car that had this issue.

It's possible that something is wrong with my service center's equipment, techniques, or techs, so if no-go this time, it's off to a different service center
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:55 AM   #2
Mishimoto
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Mostly Stock
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 529
Newer alignment machines are pretty much a walk-through piece of equipment. It tells you how to set the car up, align all the sensors, what measurements are off, how to adjust camber, caster and toe, and even what tools you need for the job.

The only problems we used to have with the Hunter Hawk Eye rack I used was when level sensors would go out and the rack would raise at a different rate from left to right. If it was an issue with the rack, I'd think they would have multiple vehicles being re-aligned.
Mishimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #3
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Yeah, I figured that but thanks just the same.

Got the car back. No joy. Still. Same thing. We talked. Bottom line is that they don;t know what's wrong, GM doesn't know what's wrong, and they (the dealership) definitely understands that something isn't right

It will be going in. Again.Fourth time. They are going to get an SS that doesn't have the problem and check that car's numbers against mine to find out what is possibly different.

I mentioned that well, I gave them 10 grand as a downpayment and traded in a car that was worth 20K on a private sale and never had a day's problems (respectfully, please save it, if anybody reading this tells me that this is no factor. It was a sticking point in my sale negotiations with this dealership. I do hear ya, but they decided to call my declaration of the value a bluff, and we went down all sorts of roads about the value of the vehicle including private sale value, so in my case, it was a factor ). Now I'm bumming rides, taking cabs, borrowing cars, and I told them that honestly, it's not their fault the car was delivered with this problem and built wrong, but I'm their customer and I'm without a car, for a total of four times in six weeks, for the same unfixable problem. It's not their fault, but it's their responsibility.

They told me, we'll look into another one for you, same everything ultra-low miles. Uh-uh, no way. I was sold a new car with problems, I expect a new car with no problems, not a second-hand car with no problems. I know they can't snap their fingers and make a car appear but I also know that my car is not a lost cause- they just need to find the problem and exorcize whatever demon is in the nuts and bolts. We put a man on the moon for the luvva mike
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 04:04 PM   #4
Mishimoto
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Mostly Stock
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 529
Your dealer doesn't have a courtesy vehicle? With as many repeat visits you are having for the same issue, it seems like they would provide you with a vehicle to keep you happy.
Mishimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #5
ragtop11
 
ragtop11's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SS/RS
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, Wi
Posts: 147
did you buy the vehicle new, if so they should give you a loaner now with as many times you have taken it in for the same thing.
If they don't get it to your liking they should have to replace it with a new vehicle.
We pay enough for these cars and they should be right.
I would be going through the roof with GM by now, if I was going in for the 4th time in 5 weeks. How long have you owned the car.
If they do not have a loaner car, have them rent you one and keep your car till it's fixed correctly, my wifes SUV we had problems with the shift linkage always locking up, had it in several times with no luck, finally had them get us a rental and told them to get it fixed. Low and behold 2 days later it was fixed and fixed correctly.
good luck, hope everything turns out for you, keep us posted.
P.S. check lemon law, so many times in for the same issue or if they have your veheicle over 30 days. don't know how it exactly works.
__________________
2012 Camaro SS/RS Black and Black.
added Solo Performance "J" pipes
ragtop11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 04:46 PM   #6
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Your dealer doesn't have a courtesy vehicle? With as many repeat visits you are having for the same issue, it seems like they would provide you with a vehicle to keep you happy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtop11 View Post
did you buy the vehicle new, if so they should give you a loaner now with as many times you have taken it in for the same thing.
If they don't get it to your liking they should have to replace it with a new vehicle.
We pay enough for these cars and they should be right.
I would be going through the roof with GM by now, if I was going in for the 4th time in 5 weeks. How long have you owned the car.
If they do not have a loaner car, have them rent you one and keep your car till it's fixed correctly, my wifes SUV we had problems with the shift linkage always locking up, had it in several times with no luck, finally had them get us a rental and told them to get it fixed. Low and behold 2 days later it was fixed and fixed correctly.
good luck, hope everything turns out for you, keep us posted.
P.S. check lemon law, so many times in for the same issue or if they have your veheicle over 30 days. don't know how it exactly works.
Bought it new, 44 miles on the odo. We did speak about a lot of things I didn't write up. They were non-commital re: the loaner, and yes, it is not right. This will be addressed and resolved when the car is in on Tuesday. I just won't agree to leave without the loaner car. I haven't been stranded without transportation and I have had other things to worry about re: my family so I haven't been hopping up and down. Yet. There's another pair of issues unrelated to this: a promised 'add-in' part that was part of the sale (splash guards) that has been non-forthcoming, as well as a window seal that must be replaced that hasn't been addressed in five weeks.

So a number of problems are getting, um, ironed out between me and these folks. I will explain to them some things and point out what I know they owe me and what I have been patient about. I do CS myself, actually.

Re: lemon law, the thought has occurred to me. We'll see. I really don't beleive that thre's anything seriously wrong with the car. I'm just starting to beleive that these particular people can't figure it out. There's good shops and bad shops and in-between shops. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise- I'm learning that maybe they aren't really so good, early on. There's other dealer shops
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 05:01 PM   #7
jeffny09


 
jeffny09's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 camaro
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 5,618
Send a message via AIM to jeffny09 Send a message via Yahoo to jeffny09
We'll I'd change the whole front end out, if it's not sticking,,then something might be bent. Or the tie rods r not being adjusted and tightened properly.
__________________
top 10 reason why real men drive stick.

10. A manual transmission is the ultimate in control
9. You can use automotive jargon and not sound like a total tool
8. You can't spell "manual" without "man"
7. Manual transmissions prove you can do more than one thing at a time
6. You can't drift in an auto
5. You can't pull fancy moves in an automatic
4. You get better fuel economy with a stick
3. You’ll never look like a chump if you can drive stick
2. Manual transmission cars are faster
1. Women like a guy who is good with his hands.

jeffny09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #8
z28racer

 
z28racer's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 SIM 2SS/ RS Sinergy M6,GMC2500HD
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Bought it new, 44 miles on the odo. We did speak about a lot of things I didn't write up. They were non-commital re: the loaner, and yes, it is not right. This will be addressed and resolved when the car is in on Tuesday. I just won't agree to leave without the loaner car. I haven't been stranded without transportation and I have had other things to worry about re: my family so I haven't been hopping up and down. Yet. There's another pair of issues unrelated to this: a promised 'add-in' part that was part of the sale (splash guards) that has been non-forthcoming, as well as a window seal that must be replaced that hasn't been addressed in five weeks.

So a number of problems are getting, um, ironed out between me and these folks. I will explain to them some things and point out what I know they owe me and what I have been patient about. I do CS myself, actually.

Re: lemon law, the thought has occurred to me. We'll see. I really don't beleive that thre's anything seriously wrong with the car. I'm just starting to beleive that these particular people can't figure it out. There's good shops and bad shops and in-between shops. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise- I'm learning that maybe they aren't really so good, early on. There's other dealer shops
WOW! Your Dealer Sucks!
z28racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 05:35 PM   #9
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Yes, well, they might suck.

I'm giving them the chance to make things right, and I'm telling them this is their chance
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 06:34 PM   #10
yardstick
 
Drives: 2012 Black 1SS
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 66
If you set the car driving straight down the road and release the steering wheel.....does it pretty much track straight (although eventually it will drift to one side or the other due to road irregularities)?

If the car pretty much tracks true and you are only having a problem drifting when turning the steering wheel "straight", then the problem is the installation of the steering wheel....it may be a tooth off.

Unless something has drastically changed on mounting....the steering wheel mouths to a toothed shaft and is bolted down. Sometimes during manufacturing, the wheels may be slightly off from straight and/or the installer puts the steering wheel on slightly off (a tooth or two).
yardstick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 06:36 PM   #11
ragtop11
 
ragtop11's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 SS/RS
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, Wi
Posts: 147
I can't beleive that you are still waiting on splash guards after 5 weeks.
I've ordered a number of different GM add on parts for my car and my dealer gave me a 20% discount, plus I had the part within a day or two. So far I'm happy with my dealer.
I see that in your post that GM has stated they don't know what's wrong.
I would demand a loaner when you take the car in again and call GM customer service and file a complaint, they will give you a file number and keep in contact with your dealer. Do you know for sure your dealer even called GM in reguards to your car.
i would call GM customer service before hand and let them know when you are taking your car in.
GOOD LUCK:
__________________
2012 Camaro SS/RS Black and Black.
added Solo Performance "J" pipes
ragtop11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #12
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by yardstick View Post
If you set the car driving straight down the road and release the steering wheel.....does it pretty much track straight (although eventually it will drift to one side or the other due to road irregularities)?

If the car pretty much tracks true and you are only having a problem drifting when turning the steering wheel "straight", then the problem is the installation of the steering wheel....it may be a tooth off.

Unless something has drastically changed on mounting....the steering wheel mouths to a toothed shaft and is bolted down. Sometimes during manufacturing, the wheels may be slightly off from straight and/or the installer puts the steering wheel on slightly off (a tooth or two).
Hi. I'm not mad or anything, but I sorta answered this in my first post. I'm a competent mechanic. Car restoration was my hobby for 20 years. I have a good touch while driving. I know about road crown. This happens on any road, any where, any lane, any speed. It's not road crown or road defects. It's not the "can't duplicate at the dealer" type of issue either.

This story might answer, overall:

I took the service manager on a drive on rte. 1. A straight road in that area. Two lanes each way. A couple turns here and there but overall nice and straight for fairly long stretches

I sat with him in the car at a stop before we left. I told him "This is what we'll do. You'll tell me when to do the test. You pick the straight bit of road, and I'll let go of the wheel while we are going straight. Either lane, it won't matter. Watch what happens. I'll stop us from hitting the car in the left lane or the guardrail. Next, you'll pick another stretch of straight road. I'll hold the wheel visually straight. Would you agree that this is me holding the wheel straight? (I hold the wheel so it's straight, and he agrees). Then you pick some straight road a third time, and I'll hold the wheel so that the car actually travels straight, and you look at where I have to hold the wheel to do that"

And we did it. The car drifted out of it's lane on the first two tests, and when I held the wheel slightly right for the third, we tracked straight. His comments:

"Oh"
"Uh..."
"Okay"

I've installed steering wheels, and I understand, the splined shaft can be off. I've even done it; it's a fine spline and you can get fooled. But I have to exert slight pressure to the right to make the car go straight; without that input, the car will drift left out of it's lane within 50 yards at around 40 mph. Most folks can't judge distances. I can.

It's not just "hey this wheel is annoyingly off center". The car will not track straight. No car I have owned in over 23 years has exhibited this behavior. None of them. Shitboxes, expensive cars, cars I've wrenched, cars I never wrenched. Cars that had been wrecked and fixed, cars that never got tapped. Cars 19 years old, cars 40 years old with the original balljoints (I should know, I had to drill out the factory rivets) and steering components, cars 5 years old, cars brand new. None, zip, nada ever did this. I realize that you can't know my experience with car repairs, etc I'm wondering though, if there's something wrong with the steering, not the alignment

Incidentally, they tell me there's no spec for 'hands off straight tracking'. I said "Wonderful. That doesn't make the car right, does it?"
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2012, 07:39 PM   #13
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtop11 View Post
I can't beleive that you are still waiting on splash guards after 5 weeks.
I've ordered a number of different GM add on parts for my car and my dealer gave me a 20% discount, plus I had the part within a day or two. So far I'm happy with my dealer.
I see that in your post that GM has stated they don't know what's wrong.
I would demand a loaner when you take the car in again and call GM customer service and file a complaint, they will give you a file number and keep in contact with your dealer. Do you know for sure your dealer even called GM in reguards to your car.
i would call GM customer service before hand and let them know when you are taking your car in.
GOOD LUCK:

That's a good point. I don't know what GM told them or if GM told them anything or if GM ever got a call about it. All I know is what they said that GM told them. That's a very interesting perspective that I wasn't thinking of.

I think I'll also request to have copies of the alignment charts they say they generated, just for grins
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 12:48 PM   #14
ChrisBlair
Buick 455 Fan
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 5,957
So...last we talked, the dealership was getting my car and another new SS on the rack to compare numbers Tuesday, AUG 7

Well, they called me, I called them. Car didn;t go in. They told me they already did that. I said "really? last time the car was here it had the tires and wheels swapped from another car. You told me the next step was two cars to compare"

"No we did that"

"So what was my car coming in today for, exactly? I notice it's after 4 pm and the car can't get in the shop any way"

"In case we could figure something out it was coming in today.

Oh. really? Saturday and Monday weren't enough time. OK.

They continue "We talked to a Chevy engineer who was here for a Volt steering issue"

"What's that got to do with my Camaro?"

"Well he's not an engineer for nothing, and..." (I interrupt at this time and say 'yeah, I work with Engineers all day long as my 9-5. I have an idea of what they do. Tell me how this engineer helps me') "well he's going to see if there's anything else that can be done"

Oh brother. Like we were doing when they called GM on the last two occasions. I went to the Caddy dealership I had my Poncho serviced at, told them the story and said 'win lose or draw on this thing, you're now my regular service center for that Chevy'.

The new story: My car is going in tomorrow, and they'll have a loaner for me. Get this:

The engineer told them to try different settings on their alignment machine.

You know what that tells me? They either set the machine up wrong or can't tell if it's out of calibration

the hits just keep on coming. I'm on vacation, too
__________________
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.