Front Lower Control Arm OE Bush Problems or Not

[JusticePete]

There have been a number of threads and posts in the last two weeks suggesting that the front LCA bush was a problematic bush, too weak for any type of performance driving and in dire need of replacement. Reading the posts motivated me to walk into the shop and cut a 5th Gen LCA bush in half to graphically tell a story of control and stability. Take a close look.




GM used a shaped ferule to increase bush stability. The ferule operates in a thin layer of rubber encased in a steel jacket. The bush rubber is bonded to both the ferule and the jacket making it exceptionally strong. This is an excellent bush design as it provides superior control and stability. When Pedders performs our evaluation of a chassis we look for the things that the OEM has done well and for things that can be improved on. The front LCA bush is good to go out of the box.

Before I hit the post button I know that this thread will reinforce my image of as a GM Fan Boy. Pedders has nothing to sell in this thread. It is informational for the Camaro5 community. The engineering behind the ZETA based 5th Gen Camaro is outstanding as is reflected in the Front Lower Control Arm Bushing. Well done Camaro Engineering TEAM!!!!

[L99CAMA2011]

I actually replaced these yesterday with these ,http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/p...roducts_id/195, and the difference was very minimal, the front end is a tad bit more stable, but Pete seems to have a point on this. Going to a full solid race bushing is the only worthy upgrade from the OEM bushing.

[RichJ.]

Thank You Pete good post

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

I actually replaced these yesterday with these ,http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/p...roducts_id/195, and the difference was very minimal, the front end is a tad bit more stable, but Pete seems to have a point on this. Going to a full solid race bushing is the only worthy upgrade from the OEM bushing.

Our take on the situation:

There are more crucial modifications to be made in the Camaro suspension system, but there are some gains to be had with going to a spherical bearing in place of that OEM Bushing. Not only does the spherical bearing included in our Camaro Spherical bearing kit eliminate deflection of that bushing which cannot be avoided when using rubber as the material of choice, but a spherical bearing allows the front suspension to articulate more effectively by minimizing friction at the control arm pickup points. Installing spherical bearings has the added benefit of keeping your alignment from wandering as rubber bushings deflect, allowing control arms to move in undesirable ways. From a pure performance perspective there isn't a reason not to eliminate OEM rubber bushings.

[fastkevman]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

I actually replaced these yesterday with these ,http://www.pfadtracing.com/catalog/p...roducts_id/195, and the difference was very minimal, the front end is a tad bit more stable, but Pete seems to have a point on this. Going to a full solid race bushing is the only worthy upgrade from the OEM bushing.

You posted this in another thread you started,
Pfadt front lower control arm bushing installed
"Last week I installed these badboys and now after breakin I am just loving the steering response big time . "

Seems like conflicting information, so were they worth the cost and effort or not?

[JusticePete]

This forum can be unforgiving with a 'permanent record' that follows you around like the one they threatened us with in HS.

If you installed a high quality radius bush at the same time you installed a front lower control arm bush it would be very easy to attribute the improvement to one or both bushes. Reality speaks for itself. There is marginal benefit in replacing such a well designed OE part.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by fastkevman

You posted this in another thread you started,
Pfadt front lower control arm bushing installed
"Last week I installed these badboys and now after breakin I am just loving the steering response big time . "

Seems like conflicting information, so were they worth the cost and effort or not?

Actually the ones I installed first were the larger baseball size ones like what Pedders refers to as the Radius rod bushings. The larger ones in the front, these are the front rear bushings. I installed solid larger bushings up front, front 1st and these Polyurethane pieces in the front rear control arms a week later, I did this to see if the front rear bushings really made a difference or not. They do but like Pete said it is marginal but you feel it. Sorry if I confused you. Steering feel is much improved, I can now go into corners a lot harder with a lot more precision. Definitely a good mod for auto x. Those green solid front rear bearings/ bushings are a better choice though. With those my cars steering would be Phenomenal. I do the install myself so maintaining the bushings wouldn't be an issue.

[fastkevman]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

Actually the ones I installed first were the larger baseball size ones like what Pedders refers to as the Radius rod bushings. The larger ones in the front, these are the front rear bushings. I installed solid larger bushings up front, front and these Polyurethane pieces in the front rear control arms. Sorry if I confused you. Steering feel is much improved, I can now go into corners a lot harder with a lot more precision. Definitely a good mod for auto x.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by fastkevman

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Pardon me , sometimes I am half asleep when I am here typing, I also had a few Bud light limes and a Heineken.

[TAG UR IT]

I had no idea just how easy it was to install the radius bush inserts. I put in the Pedders radius bush inserts right when we got back from the fest. I felt like a moron because of all of the road racing I did while at the fest....out on the track and on the road course. I could have really used them with all the racing we did. The inserts really do make a difference and I could have had that all throughout the racing. But noooooo..... As far as LCA bushes, I hadn't thought about it. I think I'd rather put away for some coilovers.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

Pardon me , sometimes I am half asleep when I am here typing, I also had a few Bud light limes and a Heineken.

I definitely have more fun when I post after having a few.

[PQ]

So then Pfadt, if I'm understanding correctly, after being around for a long time now, you are basically saying GM put very little thought into performance and just designed a cruising car? Has there been a part YET that you haven't 'Vastly' improved on?

I drive the sh** out of my car. Not as hard as you guys do, but as stiff as my car is now, I''g this there comes a point of 'piling on' and desigining parts just to sell them. I'd love to see one of those tests you guys do to show how much advantage is gained by replacing this bush.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by PQ

So then Pfadt, if I'm understanding correctly, after being around for a long time now, you are basically saying GM put very little thought into performance and just designed a cruising car? Has there been a part YET that you haven't 'Vastly' improved on?

I drive the sh** out of my car. Not as hard as you guys do, but as stiff as my car is now, I''g this there comes a point of 'piling on' and desigining parts just to sell them. I'd love to see one of those tests you guys do to show how much advantage is gained by replacing this bush.

I appreciate your position PQ, but if you don't mind let me clarify some things here.

We aren't saying that GM put little thought into performance, because that's absolutely not the case. There would be no upcoming ZL1 or even a V8 option had GM not had the Enthusiasts best interests at heart when designing the Camaro. After years working at both GM and Chrysler, Aaron Pfadt understands the pressures of being on the OEM side of vehicle manufacturing very well. Would we have put spherical bearings into every Camaro that came off the line? Clearly not, because not everyone needs these pieces to enjoy their ownership experience, and making as many people as happy as possible is what being an OEM manufacturer is all about.

That's the beauty of being an aftermarket part supplier, we are giving people a choice. Like just about every car that rolls off an assembly line from a major car manufacturer, the likelihood that a Camaro will turn in a low 10 second quarter mile or 7:30 lap at the Nurburgring is pretty slim... but that doesn't mean there aren't people who want to bring their cars to that level of performance. As the recent successes of Autohaus Racing, Momentum Autosports, and Stevenson Motorsports prove, GM has done a great job at manufacturing a chassis with the flexibility to be everything from a comfortable and fun daily driver stock to a Grand Am winner with the right parts.

I hate to quote myself here, but:

Originally Posted by Pfadt Racing

There are more crucial modifications to be made in the Camaro suspension system, but there are some gains to be had with going to a spherical bearing in place of that OEM Bushing.

My first sentence starts with acknowledging the fact that there are bigger fish to fry in the Camaro suspension package. We aren't in the business of selling people stuff they don't need, and this absolutely shouldn't be a first modification if looking for seat of the pants feel. Although there are performance benefits that are pretty undeniable when our Front Trailing arm spherical is used by it's self, or spherical bearings are properly used as a package. I feel we were pretty clear in our explanation that "since there are more crucial modifications to be made in the camaro suspension system" folks aren't going to be breaking down our door to purchase this part on it's own.

Relax... have a beer, I know I will later! I can appreciate that Pete doesn't feel this modification is necessary, and for most folks currently enjoying their street cars I agree. On the other hand, there are people out there looking to get every bit of response and feedback from their suspension possible. And for those people we offer a choice that's more efficient and higher performing than the stock rubber bushing. I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that.

[L99CAMA2011]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149491, You will notice in this thread that even Pete himself mentioned that you only notice an improvement in replacing this front lower control arm ferule bush if you go to a full race piece. I have the front lower control arm urethane pieces so far that replaced the ferule bush and like I said earlier their is minimal but noticeable improvement , however these solid pieces would have been a more worthy upgrade. The more rigid the front control arm bush is the less deflection and the more stable the front wheels would be during harsh maneuvers. This will keep the car more stable in the front end and I have noticed this. However the stock front lower control arm bush is still a good one. Some people like me like the addition of improved steering input, not just coilovers and larger swaybars. Just look at great performance cars of the past and current. We in the US got the e46 BMW M3, Europeans got the BMW M3 CSL, lighter, slightly more power, carbon fibre roof, and quicker steering rack. Mitsubishi lancer EVO 2.0 turns lock to lock, very quick in the steering department, deadly on corners, very controlled front end and more predictable steering made this car a killer. These cars benefited from quicker, more precise steering and our Camaro as well with all it's poundage also benefits with more with precise and firmer steering to make it corner harder and with increased confidence. I now find myself carving and curving around tight corners and rotaries even harder now. I am even shocked at the new found capability of my Camaro. Realize that on the race track this gives our Behemoth the ability to go deeper into corners as we approach the apex and corner with the best of them resulting in quicker lap times. I now find myself driving my car as hard as I did with cars I owned in the past that weighed a minimal 2500lbs. Making my car more athletic and tenacious is one of my goals and you know you are succeeding at that when your friends with their lighter cars back down from a challenge because your 3900lb Camaro is no longer the sloth the once thought it to be.