[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Denis

Every 4th Wednesday. Sadly they just had one...albeit a pretty good one. But we wont see this H2H till late next month if its slated for Feb and not March.

this is the one they just dropped yesterday...

Damn, that's right. It's gonna be a long month.

[addisonpeterson]

So I wanted to show you guys a little bit of a comparison of a fully loaded Camaro 2SS and a fully loaded BMW M4. It starts off at $65,700! Corvette 2LZ Price Range, but I continue. If you were to load it similarly to a Camaro 2SS with an auto and without the sunroof its about $80K. Yes I equipped premium leather colors and paint but if you think about it the adrenaline red and two of the exterior colors of the Camaro are optional so I checked the box because its still a comparison even if the prices are drastically different. At these prices if was shopping for a BMW M4 I would strongly consider the Corvette if I didn't need the backseat.


3.0 liter, inline 6-cylinder with M TwinPower Turbo Technology
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features




BASE MSRP


$65,700




Sakhir Orange Metallic








$550


Sakhir Orange/Black Full Merino Leather









$2,550


Carbon Fiber Interior Trim with Black Chrome highlight










$0

Driver Assistance Plus


$1,700

Executive Package



$3,200

Lighting Package



$1,900

18" Light Alloy Wheel V-Spoke Style 513 M with Mixed Performance Tires



$0

Adaptive M Suspension


$1,000

M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic


$2,900

Enhanced USB and Bluetooth plus Smartphone Integration


$350

Destination & Handling:


$995

BMW Ultimate Service®

A suite of premium benefits that are included at no cost with all new BMW Vehicles.

Up to 4 Years/50,000 Miles Warranty
Included

Up to 4 Years/50,000 Miles
Maintenance Program
Included

Up to 4 Years/Unlimited Mileage
Roadside Assistance
Included




Total MSRP as Built: $80,845
Estimated Lease: $1,020

[Fraxum]

This should be interesting. The BMW is underrated power wise. The cars run about the same 1/4 mile. The latest 3/4 series has not gone over well with most of the BMW crowd. They long for the feel of the older cars. I leased a 2007 335i before moving on to 5th gen Camaros. It was pretty much a stripper except for the sport package, but it was fun to drive with a M6. I am hoping my new SS, when I finally get it, will remind me of that car. It is about the same price as that BMW, but it is better equipped and I am sure faster. I will miss my ZL1 but I am excited about the new Camaro.

I think even though we appreciate the new Camaro, the general public is yawning. Very good Cadillacs are gathering dust on dealers lots. Performance doesn't seem to sell. BMW has softened thier performance cars a bit to sell more of them. Toyota tried to sporty up the Avalon. They are backing off from that in 2016. I hope the same thing doesn't happen at GM. But you can be sure they notice.

The Camaro may beat the M4 on the track, but in the eyes of the general public the Camaro will never be equal to a BMW. It's all about status, not performance. And like with Apple you pay out the nose to get it.

[addisonpeterson]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This should be interesting. The BMW is underrated power wise. The cars run about the same 1/4 mile. The latest 3/4 series has not gone over well with most of the BMW crowd. They long for the feel of the older cars. I leased a 2007 335i before moving on to 5th gen Camaros. It was pretty much a stripper except for the sport package, but it was fun to drive with a M6. I am hoping my new SS, when I finally get it, will remind me of that car. It is about the same price as that BMW, but it is better equipped and I am sure faster. I will miss my ZL1 but I am excited about the new Camaro.

I think even though we appreciate the new Camaro, the general public is yawning. Very good Cadillacs are gathering dust on dealers lots. Performance doesn't seem to sell. BMW has softened thier performance cars a bit to sell more of them. Toyota tried to sporty up the Avalon. They are backing off from that in 2016. I hope the same thing doesn't happen at GM. But you can be sure they notice.

The Camaro may beat the M4 on the track, but in the eyes of the general public the Camaro will never be equal to a BMW. It's all about status, not performance. And like with Apple you pay out the nose to get it.

Agreed. People don't really research what they buy which is unfortunate. I was at a dealer lot earlier and I got inside of a brand new Mercedes C Class and while I think the interior looks better than the Camaro but it has worst or the same quality of materials. I hate when magazines over glorify European car interiors while they are sometime just as bad as American ones

[fastball]

GM can do a few things for the Camaro SS that would make prospective M4 buyers consider the Camaro.... For starters they should make all hi-po Chevys (including Corvette) come standard with full scheduled maintenance for the entire duration of the 5/60 drivetrain warranty. Anyone who comes in for any warranty service with a Camaro SS should get a free loaner of similar value. In other words, treat Camaro SS and Corvette customers like they are special. They are. They're spending $40k and up in a dealer where the bread and butter cars are $30k and under.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by addisonpeterson

Agreed. People don't really research what they buy which is unfortunate. I was at a dealer lot earlier and I got inside of a brand new Mercedes C Class and while I think the interior looks better than the Camaro but it has worst or the same quality of materials. I hate when magazines over glorify European car interiors while they are sometime just as bad as American ones

The new Camaro has a better interior than any current BMW. BMW interiors used to be fantastic. That ended in about 2004. Cheap plastic and uninspiring design.

[addisonpeterson]

Originally Posted by fastball

GM can do a few things for the Camaro SS that would make prospective M4 buyers consider the Camaro.... For starters they should make all hi-po Chevys (including Corvette) come standard with full scheduled maintenance for the entire duration of the 5/60 drivetrain warranty. Anyone who comes in for any warranty service with a Camaro SS should get a free loaner of similar value. In other words, treat Camaro SS and Corvette customers like they are special. They are. They're spending $40k and up in a dealer where the bread and butter cars are $30k and under.

That would be awesome! Or at least have an option to pay a few hundred for maintenance for a few years

[addisonpeterson]

Originally Posted by fastball

The new Camaro has a better interior than any current BMW. BMW interiors used to be fantastic. That ended in about 2004. Cheap plastic and uninspiring design.

Every BMW interior I step in from the trucks to the 4 series I always walk away from it with a few thoughts. The seats are amazing, the infotainment is great, but the dash is so plasticky and the buttons cheap. It makes it hard to justify paying the price for a brand new one

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by fastball

The new Camaro has a better interior than any current BMW. BMW interiors used to be fantastic. That ended in about 2004. Cheap plastic and uninspiring design.

My base 2007 335i was plain and had the vinyl seats. But the interior layout and presentation had class in some way. I can't put my finger on it but the interior looked expensive to me in a way all of my 5th gen Camaros did not. Maybe because I have driven so many Chevys and Fords.

I have not sat in a newer BMW since then. Affordable V8s with lousy interiors for me.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

My base 2007 335i was plain and had the vinyl seats. But the interior layout and presentation had class in some way. I can't put my finger on it but the interior looked expensive to me in a way all of my 5th gen Camaros did not. Maybe because I have driven so many Chevys and Fords.

I have not sat in a newer BMW since then. Affordable V8s with lousy interiors for me.

The 6th gen Camaro interior is leaps and bounds better than the 5th, that's what I'm comparing BMW interiors to. If you think back to what BMW interiors used to look like in the late 90s I think you'll understand what I'm saying. A friend of mine has a 2003 3 series and that's the last year I think with the "classic" BMW cockpit design, where the center stack is angled toward the driver and just has that classic BMW design that was essentially unchanged from the late 1970s until the early 2000s. It LOOKED like a BMW.

Now in BMW's effort to be artsy fartsy they've lost their classic cockpit design. Right around 2004 is when it happened.

THIS is classic BMW:




This is blah:

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by addisonpeterson

That would be awesome! Or at least have an option to pay a few hundred for maintenance for a few years

Yes, I forgot about that. When you buy a BMW and some other cars maintenance is included. Having that would help move the Camaro or any car upscale.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by fastball

The 6th gen Camaro interior is leaps and bounds better than the 5th, that's what I'm comparing BMW interiors to. If you think back to what BMW interiors used to look like in the late 90s I think you'll understand what I'm saying. A friend of mine has a 2003 3 series and that's the last year I think with the "classic" BMW cockpit design, where the center stack is angled toward the driver and just has that classic BMW design that was essentially unchanged from the late 1970s until the early 2000s. It LOOKED like a BMW.

Now in BMW's effort to be artsy fartsy they've lost their classic cockpit design. Right around 2004 is when it happened.

THIS is classic BMW:


Attachment 771152

This is blah:

Attachment 771153

This was my interior below. But I had the M6. To me this was simple and classy:

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

This was my interior below. But I had the M6. To me this was simple and classy:

Yeah this is right where I started losing interest in BMW. I just didn't like them leaving their classic signature cockpit design. I also don't like the gauges, integrating the fuel gauge and temp gauge into the speedo and tach - classic BMWs have a large speedometer, large tach, and separate fuel and temp gauges next to them. To me it makes it easier to read all the info at a glance.

BMW had the same interior concept for years and it worked. This is a 1985 5 series:



The angled cockpit design was classic, sporty, business-like, and very attractive. There was no need for them to stop using it. It was their signature.

[SuperSound]

This is my current interior. These are the only items that really bother me.

Leather surfaces: Not impressed. The leather is hard and vinyl feeling. It is excellent at wear and easy to clear, but not soft in any sense. This is the only negative about the seats

The shifter: All plastic. The silver part feels nice to the touch but it's still plastic. The black surround feels cheaper and seems like it would break if someone was careless. The leather shifter boot is a nice touch, but only comes with the sport trans option ($$).

Whee: It's kind of blah. The leather wrapping is much like the seats, hard and plastic feel. The paddle shifters are the best part, they feel nice and solid with the aluminum pieces.

The screen: While highly visible, looks completely like an afterthought when compared to the rest of the interior. Everyone constantly asks if it retracts.

Those are really the only things that bother me. Someone mentioned the buttons were cheap. Definitely don't feel that way on mine.