[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by mt3130

While I completely agree with what you are saying, shouldn't it be the responsibility of the person to make alternative arrangements while sober to make sure this very thing doesn't happen?

The 22 year olds I work with will drive home (or leave their cars at the office), then use Uber to go out and party for the night. If a bunch of kids that are barely old enough to drink can think that way, there's no excuse for this guy.

That's the way it should work, and good on your co-workers for having the sense to find a better way. Good on the associated technology for making it possible (when I was 22 and younger, you'd have been on your own, and even the notion of a designated driver was uncommon at best).

You see, I also know that it doesn't always work that way, not by a long shot, because I've been there. Not this decade, or the one before that, or even the one before that. But not so far back that I've forgotten how easily the concept of responsible drinking behavior can be set aside "in the moment".


Norm

[addisonpeterson]

Damn. Repair Estimate $61, 180. Drinking and driving is expensive.

[ParisTNDude]

Drinking in stupid...drinking and driving is stupider!!!

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by addisonpeterson

Damn. Repair Estimate $61, 180. Drinking and driving is expensive.

Sadly, this wreck caused the driver to lose his life. So the repair estimate is meaningless.

[laynlo15]

It was his choice, but the bar gets blamed. He may have looked fine to the bartender or waitress as some can look perfectly fine and when he got in his car he was the hero and nothing could ever happen to him until he made the choice to speed or take a curve to fast or whatever happened.

[fastball]

I have been reading this but stayed out. I don't know how you can really hold a bar responsible for anything. A bartender/waiter/waitress is serving many people at one time. They can't, nor are they paid to, babysit all of them. And it really comes down to personal responsibility.

If you expect bars to babysit their customers, why not make them throw their car keys into a basket when they walk in or they won't be served. Then make them blow into an analyzer and if they are over the limit they don't get their keys back and get nothing but coffee until they fall under the limit?

But I wager you get into some murky waters of the constitution there.

[pete1077]

Originally Posted by fastball

I have been reading this but stayed out. I don't know how you can really hold a bar responsible for anything. A bartender/waiter/waitress is serving many people at one time. They can't, nor are they paid to, babysit all of them. And it really comes down to personal responsibility.

If you expect bars to babysit their customers, why not make them throw their car keys into a basket when they walk in or they won't be served. Then make them blow into an analyzer and if they are over the limit they don't get their keys back and get nothing but coffee until they fall under the limit?

But I wager you get into some murky waters of the constitution there.

Unfortunately that is the law although I do not agree with it. It basically removes some of the personal accountability and places it on a third party.

The rationale is the bartender should know better than to serve an inebriated customer. But sometimes you can't tell when someone is drunk. This law can also, to a lesser extent, involve individuals if the drunk person was served at a friend or family members home although courts typically are more lenient on a regular person serving liquor at their house as opposed to an actual bar/restaurant where they claim the owner has a greater duty of care. It also depends on the venue. In a very liberal venue, the owner of the establishment (or home if he was drinking in someone's home) could be found liable if it was proven they knowingly served the person who was drunk. In a conservative venue, a jury may feel otherwise and place all of the blame on the drunk person.

At the end of the day, this is a sad situation in which someone lost their life. There should be personal accountability. If this was a single car loss and no other vehicle contributed to the accident, this really should fall back on the driver who ultimately made the choice to drink and get behind the wheel.
Putting the responsibility on the bar and/or possibly a family member or friend can result in that person's livelihood being ruined if they aren't adequately insured.