Paul Huizenga: What’s in a Number? GT500 Versus ZL1

[1st Gen Forever]

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/editor...500-versus-zl1

[alex70olds]

Good read, thanks.

[tooslow]

Nice read, but really nothing new that hasn't already been discussed ad nauseum on this and other sites. Is there really doubt about a true 650HP in the GT500. Really? I mean, previous versions of otherwise stock GT500's who have swapped the factory Eaton for a TVS are making 650+ HP at the crank with less compression. Not a stretch to assume the 2013 with 5.8L's and a conservative factory tune will equal those numbers. I certainly agree with one point, only time will tell what both of these cars are capable of.

Edit: I got tree'd by the beast!

[KRamdathZL1]

in every single video or review of the gt500, wheel hop and traction has caused the gt500 to suffer. i believe it will suffer even more with the 650 hp

[Big Top Gt]

Personally, I don't see how the 650 HP number is any kind of stretch from a 5.8.

Guys are doing it all the time privately WITHOUT Ford's financial depth. :dunno:

What I absolutely DON'T buy is the idea that it'll come from Ford pushing 25 PSI. You don't need anywhere near that to get that kind of power out of a built 5.8 with a big huffer.

I was around the mid 600 HP level with a stock displacement 4.6 (281 ci) and twin 60's at around 12-14 psi.

Throw a big blower on top and an extra 1.2 liters of displacement and how can you NOT get big power out of it?

All of that having been said, I still think the Camaro is the better car to look at. After 8 straight years of Mustang ownership, I simply couldn't bring myself to buy one of these new ones.

I love the front end ALMOST as much as I HATE the rear end.

You've got to admit, that Coyote 5.0 sure is sweet, though.

[Big Top Gt]

I just went back and reread the article.

It looks like my dumb @$$ pulled the 25 psi thing out of the comments, not the actual article.

So, it turns out I got my info from the internet, which as we all know, is the number one source for accurate information.

[Buelligun]

Originally Posted by Big Top Gt

I love the front end ALMOST as much as I HATE the rear end.

I second that, not badge loyal at all-probably due to coming from over the sea, but I just can't bring myself to buy the Mustang with such a nasty back end!!!
Took the Shelby for a spin and loved it though

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by Buelligun

I second that, not badge loyal at all-probably due to coming from over the sea, but I just can't bring myself to buy the Mustang with such a nasty back end!!!
Took the Shelby for a spin and loved it though

Agreed. That back end is fugly. Who at Ford thought that looked good?

[tooslow]

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't see that Gen5 Camaro owners/fans have any room to talk about the rear end of the Mustang. The rear of the Camaro, IMO, looks like a careless afterthought compared to the rest of the car and leaves a lot to be desired. It is the primary reason I ended up not buying one. I'm hoping the correct this on they next generation.

[1st Gen Forever]

I'm not reading too much into the article. I think he's just trying to convey that comparing SAE rated power to an open claim might be premature. I'm happy that Ford is aiming for 650 and am anxiously waiting to see how they put it to the ground. Especially exiting a corner! Without a doubt, slicks on both cars and the ZL1 will be in trouble in a straight line.

[fiascoes1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't see that Gen5 Camaro owners/fans have any room to talk about the rear end of the Mustang. The rear of the Camaro, IMO, looks like a careless afterthought compared to the rest of the car and leaves a lot to be desired. It is the primary reason I ended up not buying one. I'm hoping the correct this on they next generation.

You didn't buy one cause you are a Ford fan boy, isn't there a mustang forum you guys should be at? It seems like all you guys do is badmouth the camaro and try to prove how the mustang is so much better in every way.

[Supercamaro64]

Now the question is if/how Chevy will respond. If they do want to reciprocate, they would also have to up the Corvettes hp, cause no way is the top-of-the-line Camaro gonna have better hp numbers than the ZR1. I dont like ford, but if they do stick with that number, theyve really stuck it to chevy. Ford upgrades one car in one category, and in order for Chevy to respond they need to upgrade 2 cars in different categories. Which leads me to believe they probably wont, at least not anytime soon :(

[Paul Huizenga]

Originally Posted by 1st Gen Forever

I'm not reading too much into the article. I think he's just trying to convey that comparing SAE rated power to an open claim might be premature. I'm happy that Ford is aiming for 650 and am anxiously waiting to see how they put it to the ground. Especially exiting a corner! Without a doubt, slicks on both cars and the ZL1 will be in trouble in a straight line.

You nailed it on the head.

I have no doubt that Ford can make 650 crank horsepower from the 5.8 and the new TVS blower. The challenge will be doing it with a calibration that is 50-state legal (which the pulley swap/tune that people have been mentioning isn't) and can be sold with a reasonable powertrain warranty.

Some people have taken me to task for bringing up the '99 Cobra, but if you want a more recent example of Ford getting a little ahead of itself when it comes to stuff like this, you only need to look back as far as the BOSS 302 TracKey, which was held up for a year after it was announced while they sorted out the minor detail of actually being able to legally offer it.

As I alluded to in the article, there are a lot of cracks between development engines and the production line for horsepower to fall through. I respect GM for not making any claims until they had a number that their legal department would have no problem with putting in ads and sales brochures, rather than Ford's "Ready, Fire, Aim" approach.

Will there be a 650 horsepower GT500? I'm sure there will be, though it might not be a 2013 model if they have issues going from dyno to assembly line. But I am just as certain that GM will not allow a Mustang that has more horsepower than the ZR1 (at least not for long). It's an open secret that the LSA was detuned to keep it well below the LS9 - that's why the jump from 556 to 580 in the ZL1 was pretty much effortless.

I would not be surprised at all to see the LSA unleashed for the 2013 model year, with the LS9's better internals and larger blower mated to a tall intercooler/intake manifold stack pushing 650 horsepower in the ZL1, and an uprated version of the same combination doing a nice round 700 horses under a 4-inch factory cowl hood to send the C6 ZL1 off with a bang before the C7 debuts.

[tmandoug1]

Originally Posted by fiascoes1

You didn't buy one cause you are a Ford fan boy, isn't there a mustang forum you guys should be at? It seems like all you guys do is badmouth the camaro and try to prove how the mustang is so much better in every way.

He is always negative.