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Old 02-25-2013, 08:25 PM   #1
TBone
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Question Setting up the rear diff for road racing

Ok, so I would like to set up a discussion regarding this idea.

Sure the 1LE come with the 3.91 gears but the early SS' do not. So in order to get them we need to change out our gears. But while we are in there what else should we change out to set it up for road racing?

Jannetty posi mod?
Eaton Tru-Trac?
Wavetrac? do that make this for our cars?

So, what do you guys think, professionals included (JDP,TorQ,Jannetty,Etc.)?

T.

Please, this is not 1/4 mile orientated.
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"Horsepower is something that looks great in a Magazine article, but suspension is what actually gets you around the track fast.." Jack Olsen
The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same.
Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different.
I can't wait for my next
Track fix.
DA HAWKS OWN DA CUP!!!!!

Last edited by TBone; 02-27-2013 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Change title to make question clearer.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:22 PM   #2
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interested in hearing some info on this
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #3
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Differential mount bushings. Sorry if that's obvious.

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Old 02-27-2013, 06:04 PM   #4
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- Billet caps would be good but the LPW cover would help in a similar fashion and provide additional fluid capacity which would be a better option from a thermal management standpoint. High hp would want both most likely.
- Definitely bushings.
- Haven't decided on a posi nor do I think a stiff posi would be a good thing. Its a negative in sharp turns since you want them to be able to turn at different speeds or risk loss of traction. Having one thats indestructible would be good but you need to balance how tight it is. Maybe Ted could provide input on that since he's done a bunch of both.
- Biggest thing is a diff cooler setup to manage heat. Not truly necessary for the weekend guy who isn't going to run at 100%. But for people taking it to the next level then a bigger radiator and oil/trans/diff cooler setups are needed. It won't be cheap though. Even as a DIY it will be pricey, a kit would be ridiculous. Most diff coolers I see are in the 2,500 range. A DIY would be under 1k if you get a nice pump, cooler, lines, fittings, etc; its pricey stuff.
- If you're not going that extreme then synthetic fluid changed regularly with the LPW cover for some extra capacity would be a good compromise between price and function.

If you haven't done an oil cooler and radiator upgrade I would start there. Engines cost more than transmissions and rear ends. Thats my 2 cents and the order I'm doing it in.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #5
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I already have bushings, thanks for that one guys.

I am looking more for the guts of the diff. Kinda like what Synner is talking about above. The Posi question is the big one as pointed out above and that is what I am really questioning. I am not high HP and will never be over 500hp as I plan on staying NA for the track. But bulletproof is a key as I like to do things once, the right way the first time, and be done with it.

Synner, So the LPE diff cover will provide the same strength as the JRE billet caps and provide additional capacity? Did not know that.

Diff cooler are expensive but I do run synthetic and change once a year. Additional capacity could help with the LPE diff cover. Something to consider since I am a weekender and run 6-7 times a year.

I usually run 5-6 20-30 minute sessions a day with at least 45-60 minutes in between so there is plenty of time to cool down.

Radiator is on my short list, Be Cool for the capacity, even though heat hasn't been an issue yet. Oil cooler was not but I am going to give this post a peruse when I get a chance, http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274563 .

Keep them coming folks. Oh and can somebody let Jannetty know this is here?

T.

BTW, I meant this as FYI for everyone but if anyone is curious I already have full bushings, Sways, Coilovers, Trailing arms, Toelinks, Driveshaft, Axles, Headers, Cai, PTB, Hurst Shifter (am going to replace with MGW), SS brake lines, DBA 4000 Slotted rotors, Motul 600, Carbotech Pads, Probably other stuff I am forgetting, So I mostly set up for all this fun.
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"Horsepower is something that looks great in a Magazine article, but suspension is what actually gets you around the track fast.." Jack Olsen
The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same.
Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different.
I can't wait for my next
Track fix.
DA HAWKS OWN DA CUP!!!!!
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:01 PM   #6
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If you want to keep the stock diff, I would replace the factory posi unit to a Eaton Truetrac.
Since you have it appart,upgrade the factory caps to billet.If you upgrade the caps,the HD diff cover would not be really required.
as for gear ratio,it would depend on the track.

Edit: extra oil would be nice,if the cover offer that option,that would be a bonus.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:06 PM   #7
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I don't know if I'd say the same strength but the cover has the support bolts which is attempting to achieve the same thing in a different way. Its always better to strengthen the actual part versus trying to brace something but like I said the capacity gives you 2 benefits out of one item. If you love clutch dumping and driving like an idiot as much as I do I'd probably consider both for both strength and fluid capacity in an M6.

I think its about a quart in added capacity, their website is not working for me right now so I can't check exact numbers. Considering its a bit over a quart stock you've got around a 80% increase in fluid which is pretty huge.

And a 30 minute session is a LONG session. Definitely address heat concerns. If you've got sticky tires, are stomping on it out of turns, and are using good brakes to the max you'll be generating some serious heat all over the place. Consider the flexalite too, I really like their end tank design.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #8
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The Wave-trac is too big for the stock differential casing. I looked into it myself. Since Ted sells both his own posi unit and the true trac, I asked him what he thought. I mentioned my car was more street than strip. He advised me to go with the True trac. His posi unit is also good as well for street. With that said, Eaton advises AGAINST synthetic fluid with the true trac. JRE billet caps and the LPW cover will help with strengthening up the rear end. That is the exact setup I did after doing months of research.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
If you love clutch dumping and driving like an idiot as much as I do I'd probably consider both for both strength and fluid capacity in an M6.

And a 30 minute session is a LONG session. Definitely address heat concerns. If you've got sticky tires, are stomping on it out of turns, and are using good brakes to the max you'll be generating some serious heat all over the place. Consider the flexalite too, I really like their end tank design.
Yes and yes.

Sticky tires, Check.
Stomping on it out of turns, Check.
Going like bat out of hell IN turns, Check
Maxing out the brakes, Check.

Thus why I am looking to upgrade the rear gears. Along with a few other things, radiator, shifter, looking into an oil cooler now as well as trans I saw Garth post in that other thread.

LPW, not LPE . http://www.lpwracing.com/Ultra_IRS/Ultra_IRS.html
Found it but it just says increased capacity but not how much.

T.
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"Horsepower is something that looks great in a Magazine article, but suspension is what actually gets you around the track fast.." Jack Olsen
The drag strip is like sniffing glue, it's cheap, it's a decent buzz, it doesn't last long and they are all the same.
Road racing is like China White Heroin, the buzz is stronger, the high lasts for hours, it's extremely addictive and they are all different.
I can't wait for my next
Track fix.
DA HAWKS OWN DA CUP!!!!!
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:59 PM   #10
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I was liking something like this so you could plum the trans and diff to the same cooler.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/152...ductId=1343710
It would still take 2 pumps though but less mounting stuff and more compact. Run that to the back using the fan for airflow and then the engine oil cooler up front to keep it less crowded.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBone View Post
Ok, so I would like to set up a discussion regarding this idea.

Sure the 1LE come with the 3.91 gears but the early SS' do not. So in order to get them we need to change out our gears. But while we are in there what else should we change out to set it up for road racing?

Jannetty posi mod?
Eaton Tru-Trac?
Wavetrac? do that make this for our cars?

So, what do you guys think, professionals included (JDP,TorQ,Jannetty,Etc.)?

T.

Please, this is not 1/4 mile orientated.
Do not put a stiffer/tighter posi in if you are going to be predominantly on the road course. It will create significant handling problems and wear your tires quicker. A loose posi is exactly what you want for that style of driving.

As far as strength improvements, you could go caps but to be honest you are not seeing anywhere near the shock loads of a drag car so probably not necessary.

Extra capacity is a good idea for the heat, and you will create a lot in the rear end in a 20 minute session. You are going to hear a ton opinions on gear oil. I'm running Redline right now but I am going to make a switch to dino oil this season on the advise of a very knowledgable racer/gear shop owner I know. Will report back how that turns out this summer.

Engine oil cooler is a good idea and you'll see lots of guys on here are doing it. I hit 300 deg (computed) with my setup and an oil cooler is definitely on the to do list.

3.91's are going to really liven your car up but be prepared for more shifting than you were used to which isn't always a good thing. A couple tracks I used to run in almost only 1 or 2 gears are now 2 or 3 gears. Shifting is time consuming.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by TBone View Post
Yes and yes.

Sticky tires, Check.
Stomping on it out of turns, Check.
Going like bat out of hell IN turns, Check
Maxing out the brakes, Check.

Thus why I am looking to upgrade the rear gears. Along with a few other things, radiator, shifter, looking into an oil cooler now as well as trans I saw Garth post in that other thread.

LPW, not LPE . http://www.lpwracing.com/Ultra_IRS/Ultra_IRS.html
Found it but it just says increased capacity but not how much.

T.
Increases by approximately 1 pint.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tadams72 View Post
3.91's are going to really liven your car up but be prepared for more shifting than you were used to which isn't always a good thing. A couple tracks I used to run in almost only 1 or 2 gears are now 2 or 3 gears. Shifting is time consuming.
Yeah when I gut the trans I want to do the 1LE gear ratios at the same time as the carbon syncros, support bearing, etc. Sadly my racing skills are far better than my lottery number picking skills. Why the hell did I get married.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:40 PM   #14
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Increases by approximately 1 pint.
Well then thats only like a 40% increase, still good but not as good as I had hoped.
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