I was told i need a camber kit?? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Tmick5jr · 10-27-2014, 11:41 AM

i have a family friend that owns an alignment shop so would my best bet be taking it to another alignment shop? would they be the right person to take it to or would the dealer be better. Could any bent of damaged things be replaced under my warranty? or will they come at me and say i lowered my car (1inch hotchkis springs) so they can't do anything about it.

Norm Peterson · 10-27-2014, 12:41 PM

It almost sounds like the upper strut to knuckle bolt slipped a little from an impact involving the inside of the driver side tire (trying to push the tire outward but pushing the knuckle inward at the upper bolt instead). Hitting a hole or a raised manhole cover while turning left might do this, though I'd also be suspicious that the strut bolts weren't torqued tight enough the last time.

That's about the only way I can see camber going more negative and toe going 'out' at the same time from a single "hit" - does that fit with your recollection of the incident?

Edit - a good look at the Camaro suspension can be found here.

I don't think your Firestone shop has any experience adjusting camber on strut-suspended cars except by using those scrawny, cheap-ass crash bolts. Don't walk away from using those things . . . RUN.

And please check the torque on these two bolts/nuts on both sides of the car once it's been fixed regardless of what may have ended up needing adjustment or replacement.

Norm

td195f · 10-27-2014, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmick5jr

could i take it amongst myself and loosen those two bolts and just retighten them to see if the camber fixes itself? or should i take it to the alignment shop and tell them to loosen those bolts and then retighten them? thank you for all the information, i can show them your exact words, but other than that, what exactly should i instruct the people to do at the shop? keep in mind this alignment is still under warranty until friday so i can bring it right back and have them do as i say to get it right.

Camber won't fix itself by loosening the bolts alone. You would need to move the spindle in relation to the strut with the bolt hole at the top of the spindle (see photo below). I used a 10mm - 1.5 X 35 mm long bolt in that hole to set the camber when I aligned mine. Unless you have a four post lift where you can keep the suspension at ride height and the alignment tools I would recommend an alignment shop do the work and inspect the front suspension. You need to have the suspension under load and you can't get to the bolts to loosen and tighten with the car on the ground. The bolts are also torqued pretty tight. I don't remember the exact value but 175 ft-lb comes to mind.
I would try a different alignment shop also.
I'm including a couple of other photos I shot of my suspension showing LCA, Radius arm, spindle, etc. if this will help.

Norm Peterson · 10-28-2014, 06:25 AM

No lift required, some sort of floor jack is all you need in the way of lifting equipment.

It should be possible to determine (fairly closely, anyway) how much camber will change when you turn the 10 x 1.50 adjusting screw one full turn (from the thread pitch and the spacing between the center of the lower strut bolt and the center of the 10mm adjusting screw). Then divide the amount you want to change the camber that you now have by the degrees per turn calculated above to find out how much to turn the little screw. Torque the big bolts, put the wheel back on the car, roll it a few feet in either direction to settle the suspension, and re-measure camber.

It might take two or three tries to get exactly the camber you want. A digital angle finder and a bit of patience will get you a camber reading accurate to within about ±0.1° if your setup area is level. Then you get to do toe, and there is a good DIY method for this as well (that uses parallel strings).

Norm

rick_coors · 10-28-2014, 07:58 AM

Tmick5jr,

The adjustment bolt td195f mentions is not included on the spindle FYI. His first picture you can see the hole where the bolt will be threaded in top of the spindle. I bought a few to make it easier for the alignment shop to adjust camber. Once everything is set, you should remove the bolts and toss them in your glove box for next time. You don't want them backing out as you drive.

And if I recall correctly, once you loosen the top bolt on the strut the top of the wheel will want to fall away from the fender if you are using jacks. This makes adjusting a little more difficult. The easier way is to use the type of lift td195f mentions. That way with the suspension loaded the top of the wheel will want to push in, and then you can use the spindle bolt to move the tire in and out for camber. Once you have it set with the spindle bolt, you tighten the strut bolts.

I just remember what a pain it was installing coilovers and getting the rough alignment set with the suspension hanging. I used a lift, but it was the type that uses the arms instead of ramps. Even if you decide to let a shop fix this for you, at least you will have the knowledge of how things work so they can't BS you.

Tmick5jr · 10-28-2014, 08:13 AM

thanks everyone, it will stay in the garage all week until friday which is when my appointment is. Ill go pick up one of those bolts to help make things easier, but like i said, i had compared both sides with the wheels off and coulnt find anything bent. So i think those two bolts or just the top bolt was knocked out of wack. thanks for all the help

CHMSC · 10-28-2014, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmick5jr

thanks everyone, it will stay in the garage all week until friday which is when my appointment is. Ill go pick up one of those bolts to help make things easier, but like i said, i had compared both sides with the wheels off and coulnt find anything bent. So i think those two bolts or just the top bolt was knocked out of wack. thanks for all the help

Take a look at it on a lift if you can and compare both sides to one another. I fought a problem for over a year because I couldn't see anything out of whack on jack stands in the garage. Two dealerships and a couple of alignment shops also missed the problem.

Finally I went to get it aligned again and asked if they minded if I took a quick look at my car on the lift. Sure enough I found a bent LCA.

Tmick5jr · 10-30-2014, 07:20 PM

UPDATE: So i loosened the top bolt on the spindle (i think thats what its called) and i used the correct size bolt in the spindle hole to push the camber more positive. I knew this was my problem because i compared the gab between the strut and spindle on both sides and it was obvious that the upper bolt moved. I turned the bolt a couple times and got the gaps identical. The camber looks perfect and i think i fixed it. Its a noticeable difference to the human eye. i guess my toe or something was also affected by this because it is slightly pulling. ill go get my alignment fixed in the morning and update again.

Norm Peterson · 10-30-2014, 07:56 PM

When you change camber, toe is indeed affected. I'm guessing that you're having to steer a little to the left in order to drive straight on a level road.

Norm

Tmick5jr · 10-30-2014, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

When you change camber, toe is indeed affected. I'm guessing that you're having to steer a little to the left in order to drive straight on a level road.

Norm

if i keep the wheel straight it pulls to the right, so yes you are correct

Firefighter · 10-30-2014, 09:27 PM

Well I guess you know to avoid that shop from here on out. I'm glad it seems like you have it figured out.

Tmick5jr · 10-30-2014, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Well I guess you know to avoid that shop from here on out. I'm glad it seems like you have it figured out.

yes but ill still need to go to them to straighten out the alignment since it will be free.

Firefighter · 10-30-2014, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmick5jr

yes but ill still need to go to them to straighten out the alignment since it will be free.

I wouldn't let those prats touch my car again. Free or not...

My financial situation may differ from yours though. If you go back to them I'll get it. Still efff those guys.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Norm Peterson · 10-31-2014, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmick5jr

yes but ill still need to go to them to straighten out the alignment since it will be free.

It'll be very interesting to see how close you got the driver side camber - last night I was going to suggest you check it with a carpenter's level and a small scale but you were offline and it was already dark.

Anyway, if it's anywhere near close maybe they should pay you. Even if it isn't spot-on, you telling them how to do it so they can get on with a meaningful toe adjustment should be worth something. Which I hope they're smart enough to start by adjusting only the driver side tierod.

Whereabouts in South Jersey? You might not be too far away.

Norm

10-30-2014, 09:27 PM	#25
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	Well I guess you know to avoid that shop from here on out. I'm glad it seems like you have it figured out. __________________ My Build Thread... http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285054

10-27-2014, 11:41 AM	#15
Tmick5jr Todd Drives: 2012 Camaro Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,669 View My Garage	i have a family friend that owns an alignment shop so would my best bet be taking it to another alignment shop? would they be the right person to take it to or would the dealer be better. Could any bent of damaged things be replaced under my warranty? or will they come at me and say i lowered my car (1inch hotchkis springs) so they can't do anything about it.

10-27-2014, 12:41 PM	#16
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	It almost sounds like the upper strut to knuckle bolt slipped a little from an impact involving the inside of the driver side tire (trying to push the tire outward but pushing the knuckle inward at the upper bolt instead). Hitting a hole or a raised manhole cover while turning left might do this, though I'd also be suspicious that the strut bolts weren't torqued tight enough the last time. That's about the only way I can see camber going more negative and toe going 'out' at the same time from a single "hit" - does that fit with your recollection of the incident? Edit - a good look at the Camaro suspension can be found here. I don't think your Firestone shop has any experience adjusting camber on strut-suspended cars except by using those scrawny, cheap-ass crash bolts. Don't walk away from using those things . . . RUN. And please check the torque on these two bolts/nuts on both sides of the car once it's been fixed regardless of what may have ended up needing adjustment or replacement. Norm

10-28-2014, 06:25 AM	#18
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	No lift required, some sort of floor jack is all you need in the way of lifting equipment. It should be possible to determine (fairly closely, anyway) how much camber will change when you turn the 10 x 1.50 adjusting screw one full turn (from the thread pitch and the spacing between the center of the lower strut bolt and the center of the 10mm adjusting screw). Then divide the amount you want to change the camber that you now have by the degrees per turn calculated above to find out how much to turn the little screw. Torque the big bolts, put the wheel back on the car, roll it a few feet in either direction to settle the suspension, and re-measure camber. It might take two or three tries to get exactly the camber you want. A digital angle finder and a bit of patience will get you a camber reading accurate to within about ±0.1° if your setup area is level. Then you get to do toe, and there is a good DIY method for this as well (that uses parallel strings). Norm

10-28-2014, 07:58 AM	#19
rick_coors Drives: 2010 IBM SS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: CA USA Posts: 6	Tmick5jr, The adjustment bolt td195f mentions is not included on the spindle FYI. His first picture you can see the hole where the bolt will be threaded in top of the spindle. I bought a few to make it easier for the alignment shop to adjust camber. Once everything is set, you should remove the bolts and toss them in your glove box for next time. You don't want them backing out as you drive. And if I recall correctly, once you loosen the top bolt on the strut the top of the wheel will want to fall away from the fender if you are using jacks. This makes adjusting a little more difficult. The easier way is to use the type of lift td195f mentions. That way with the suspension loaded the top of the wheel will want to push in, and then you can use the spindle bolt to move the tire in and out for camber. Once you have it set with the spindle bolt, you tighten the strut bolts. I just remember what a pain it was installing coilovers and getting the rough alignment set with the suspension hanging. I used a lift, but it was the type that uses the arms instead of ramps. Even if you decide to let a shop fix this for you, at least you will have the knowledge of how things work so they can't BS you.

10-28-2014, 08:13 AM	#20
Tmick5jr Todd Drives: 2012 Camaro Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,669 View My Garage	thanks everyone, it will stay in the garage all week until friday which is when my appointment is. Ill go pick up one of those bolts to help make things easier, but like i said, i had compared both sides with the wheels off and coulnt find anything bent. So i think those two bolts or just the top bolt was knocked out of wack. thanks for all the help

10-30-2014, 07:20 PM	#22
Tmick5jr Todd Drives: 2012 Camaro Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,669 View My Garage	UPDATE: So i loosened the top bolt on the spindle (i think thats what its called) and i used the correct size bolt in the spindle hole to push the camber more positive. I knew this was my problem because i compared the gab between the strut and spindle on both sides and it was obvious that the upper bolt moved. I turned the bolt a couple times and got the gaps identical. The camber looks perfect and i think i fixed it. Its a noticeable difference to the human eye. i guess my toe or something was also affected by this because it is slightly pulling. ill go get my alignment fixed in the morning and update again.

10-30-2014, 07:56 PM	#23
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	When you change camber, toe is indeed affected. I'm guessing that you're having to steer a little to the left in order to drive straight on a level road. Norm