ZL1 Upgrades Installed on a FE3 2010 SS

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

You are on ordering constraint until our Autocross Grudge Match is over

[BullF-16]

HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?

My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The Camaro SS FE4 suspension moves the rear sway bar endlink / drop link mounting close to the knuckle to increase efficiency. The stock bars are now solid 23mm front and 24mm rear. The ZL1 will have 25mm solid front bars and 28mm solid rear bars. Chevrolet moved from hollow to solid bars for strength and durability. They did well, very well

Pedders exists to take Modern Muscle to the next level and we have a particular affinity for the 5th Gen Camaro. Our FE4 / FE5 sway bars are solid. The front is 27mm and adjustable. The rears are 32mm. Our bar sets are sold with high efficiency OEM quiet front end-links and fixed position drop- links. How do they perform, do you really need to ask? The owner of this Camaro is a law enforcement professional with countless hours of driver training. His professional opinion -- 'Holy shit, man! The front HOOKED not even CLOSE to breaking traction and the back end stayed right with it. I mean....when the car turns, it TURNS.'

Our FE4 / 5 rear sway bars can be retro fit to any 5th Gen Camaro. The new Camaro rear lower control arms have the 'old' style close to the differential endlink mounting tabs and the 'new' close to the knuckle mounting hole. This is a smart choice by Chevrolet as one coomon part number can be used on all versions of the 5th Gen Camaro. The new OE lower rear control arms are inexpensive.

Why did Chevrolet make the change in rear sway bar geometry and size? To make the 5th Gen handle better. From day one of the 5th Gen the bias of the car has been heavy on understeer. This is a function of weight distribution, wheel base, track, wheel and tire size and of course sway bar strength. The FE4 addresses both with improved rear sway bar geometry and sway bar strength. The old bars were hollow. The new bars are solid, the material is stronger. The old bars were almost the same diameter (strength) front and rear. The new FE4 rear bar is 1mm larger than the front. It doesn't sound like much, but coupled with the increase in efficiency of the new outboard mounting position it is a big difference. The FE4 Camaro is far more balanced that the FE3 SS. It is more neutral and handles better in the corners.

The new FE5 ZL1 takes this all on steroids. The front bar goes up in size to 25mm and the rear bar a huge jump to 28mm. Talk about balance from the factory

At Pedders, even great isn't good enough. We have been using a dumbed down rear alignment with a 32mm bar to reduce understeer and improve cornering. We set the rear camber to half the front camber or even less. The on track results were excellent. We feel we had a ZL1 two years ago with our Pedders USA Camaro. Now, there is a ZL1 so we have been hard at work with our partners at Lingenfelter on the L/28. When you next see the L/28 it will be running Pedders new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 sway bars.

Here is the new rear bar complete with Pedders drop-link.



The new 32mm bar takes up space, but there are ZERO clearance issues.




To get the aggressive alignment we wanted Pedders Extended Range Rear Camber and Toe bolts are necessary. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.


Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.


FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 Track Alignment

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -2.3 Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off
Toe: OUT .5

Rear
Camber -2.5
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required.

Heath Bratcher, owner of American Muffler / Pedders in Fredericksburg Texas, Jimmy his lead Pedders Tech, myself and TAG UR IT


We'll have these bars available in about 60 days. I'll have confirmed dates for the initial production run in a day or two for the made in the USA Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 27mm adjustable front with high efficiency OEM quiet front endlinks and 32mm rear bar with drop-links kits as well as pricing.

Yes, we will have a retro-fit 32mm rear bar and drop links ONLY option for our clients that ready have our front bars.

Yes we will take pre-orders so you can be certain to start your driving season with the new FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 bars.

If you have a ZL1 on order, now would be the ideal time to order your Pedders upgraded sway bars.

If you drag race, you'll want to upgrade to Pedders FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 32mm rear bar with OEM Drop-links to improve control of the rear wheels and load distribution. Yes we will have a drag race kit.

Yes, Pedders Extended Range Alignment Bolts are IN Stock.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by BullF-16

HEY! This place looks familiar! Loving the Justice package with the option C swaybars Pete. Is this an upgrade over what I have now? If so, is it completely different sways over the option C that are on the car now. And with my setup now, how much better is what you are describing here?

We knew the new style bar and drop-link would be more efficient, but were not sure how much. With the old style bar we compensated for understeer by reducing rear camber. With the new style bar found we could run the same incredibly strong solid 32mm rear bar and have a well balanced car. We can dial in more rear camber to improve cornering. The setup is much improved.

Long story short, yes.

Originally Posted by BullF-16

My Forgelines and Bridgestone RE-11s should be here Monday. I finally got a tracking number from Fedex.

[sting808]

Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?)

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by sting808

Pete,

The new bars are 32mm, uses new endlink mount location, and direct bolt-in on 2010s?

If you don't remember my setup...

275/40FR (invo)
-1.1 camber
6ish* castor (max w/eccentric)
stock toe
Bar set of soft/med
Dampening 5-8 clicks
315/35RR (invo)
0.0* camber
0.0 toe
Bar set to stiff
Dampening 11-14 clicks

Pedders FR/RR bars (old style/manufacturer and uses clamp stops; new style endlinks) Alignment is a compromise for mainly street/highway use.

Car understeers when carrying little too much speed into big turns at solox. Can induce oversteer using throttle, but mainly understeers. I was looking at the old style 32mm rear using the old reinforced control arm mount point. Not ready to buy new non-staggered wheels/tires just for once a month racing.

Would the new 32mm bars and mount point be preferrable over the older bars with my setup? The old 32mm description implies the the rear can break loose more easily(very quickly?) and not recommended for street use.

Thoughts?
(slow down on big/tight turns or get better wheel combos?)

The 32mm / Solution C does reduce change the bias / balance of the 5th Gen. The new 32mm even more so.

You have reduced you rear camber to reduce understeer ad that is good. You'll find that pulling the rear toe IN between .10 and .20 will increase stability. Change your front toe to ZERO and that will improve your turn in.

Add the 12 arms and new 32 and we can increase the rear camber to improve cornering while still having great front to rear balance. We are working on a turn key 2010 /2011 package that will include the '12 arms along with Pedders FE4 / ZL1 32mm rear bar and drop links.

You will love the result.

[Mr Twisty]

Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much

[Zman12]

Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.

I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Sounds like TAG is pleased!



















..... GTA not so much

GTA... the name sounds familiar, but I can't place it

Originally Posted by Zman12

Ok so my main question is I still have a brand new front sway bar in the package from you with end links. I have no idea if it is old or new style and someone said the old style I would have to drill out the mounting holes? How do I tell for one and what rear bar am I gonna want to buy to go with this.

Easiest way is to post a pic here or email one to me PGD@PeddersUSA.com

Originally Posted by Zman12

I will never road race and will only drag race a few times a year at the track. Is a rear bar even needed? Can I just install the front and be fine or will this throw the balance off and how will this effect traction for launching. Again more worried about just having nice street performance. Also will I need alignment kits for what I plan? I will also be installing your drop springs?

With the RWHP you are making you will want the new FE4 / ZL1 rear bar to match your adjustable 27mm front bar. Why? to more evenly distribute load on a hard launch. To bring better handling balance to your Camaro with the blower up front. I would wait on the lowering coils and install rear sub-frame bushes EP1201HD and EP6579 full face radius bush inserts along with you sway bars. Why? We want to plant the IRS assembly and eliminate rear end step out. The radius bush inserts will reduce unwanted dynamic caster changes. Add in a tight spec Pedders alignment and you won't believe the difference this makes every mile you drive. You'll fall in love with your 5th Gen like it was a new car.

[Addiction]

Is it Feb yet....

[davidcroft]

Are the ZL1 sway bars a direct bolt on mod you can do to an FE4 2012 SS?

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Do NOT run a strut tower bar, let the car work for you in the turns. If you have one, take it off

Can you explain this? I'm not doubting you. It's just that I can understand that the front structure may be stiff enough that a strut tower brace is not needed, but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by davidcroft

Are the ZL1 sway bars a direct bolt on mod you can do to an FE4 2012 SS?

YES.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Rocky1974

Can you explain this? I'm not doubting you. It's just that I can understand that the front structure may be stiff enough that a strut tower brace is not needed, but I wouldn't think it would hurt anything.

When you turn a corner hard the tower under the higher load will lean in just a hair increasing negative camber exactly when you want it most. A number of Grand Am Camaro TEAMs have stopped using a front strut tower bar. Pedders has been on record since day one on Camaro5 telling everyone that would listen you don't need one for many reasons, but we held back a bit on this detail. You don't want to tell the 'other' guys everything

[Zman12]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

GTA... the name sounds familiar, but I can't place it



Easiest way is to post a pic here or email one to me PGD@PeddersUSA.com



With the RWHP you are making you will want the new FE4 / ZL1 rear bar to match your adjustable 27mm front bar. Why? to more evenly distribute load on a hard launch. To bring better handling balance to your Camaro with the blower up front. I would wait on the lowering coils and install rear sub-frame bushes EP1201HD and EP6579 full face radius bush inserts along with you sway bars. Why? We want to plant the IRS assembly and eliminate rear end step out. The radius bush inserts will reduce unwanted dynamic caster changes. Add in a tight spec Pedders alignment and you won't believe the difference this makes every mile you drive. You'll fall in love with your 5th Gen like it was a new car.

I have ready to install and would like to put it all on now
Lowering springs
27 front bar with end links
1201HD
1167HD
PFADT trailing arms

Is it going to be ok to run front bar now and get a rear bar later, when I have the money?

I sold the 6577 full bush because I didn't want to have to find a press. My plan was gonna be to buy just the inserts 6578, but you think I should get the 6579 even for mostly street driving?

Willi need any alignment kits. I would like to get away with out them right now if I can. Thanks for the help.