2013 2SS L99 A6 with lifter problem??

[nyrfan]

Originally Posted by MrPace

I wonder if this problem is more prevalent with those who tune out AFM or who run something like the Range AFM delete (like I do). Running these lifters in 8-cylinder mode all the time is not how they were designed to be used. I'm going to take the Range unit out for a while and see if that makes a difference. I'm sure it won't, but it's worth a shot.

This is a well know issue in these cars, a tune or the range device is not causing the issue.

[MrPace]

It's not well known in 2013 models, is it?

[Chevrolet Customer Svc]

Originally Posted by MrPace

I thought the AFM lifter issue was limited to 2010 models and that GM introduced new lifters to fix this issue. Since my car is a 2013, how is it I seem to be having this problem?

I have 10k miles on the car and in the last couple of months, I am getting the following noise on startup (after the car has sat at least 6-8 hours). The following video isn't my car, however, the 2-3 second ticking/sewing machine noise you hear is exactly what I am getting after the car sits for 6-8 hours (it doesn't happen every single time, but often enough).

How does a 2013 get stuck with the 2010 bad lifters? And what happens if I can't get them to fix it? Will this result in long term engine damage?

MrPace,

I realize how displeasing it can be when faced with a lifter concern like this, and though you're seeking thoughts and opinions, I would be happy to communicate this situation with the designated Customer Experience Manager at your preferred dealer if you feel an official diagnosis is necessary. Feel free to message us privately if you'd like to proceed, or discuss this situation further.

William R.
Chevrolet Customer Care

[MrPace]

I've actually thought about this a little more, and came up with the reason why it can sit overnight and not make the noise the following morning, yet other times it can sit for 6-8 hours at the train station while I'm at work and pretty much make the noise almost every time these days when I get off the train and get in my car.

My drive to the train station is only about 5 minutes on local roads. However, at night, I am usually driving back from a friends house, which is a 15-20 minute drive on the highway.

So, it must have something to do with the fact that I cold start it in the morning (no noise) and drive it only 5 minutes on local roads, then park it for 6-8 hours = 2 second sewing machine noise on the next start up.

vs.

15-20 minute drive home on highway at night, then park it for 6-8 hours = NO sewing machine noise the next morning.

Can anyone make sense of this? lol

It must have something to do with the engine oil temp not reaching operating temperature during that 5 minute drive in the morning prior to parking it for 6-8 hours.

[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by MrPace

I've actually thought about this a little more, and came up with the reason why it can sit overnight and not make the noise the following morning, yet other times it can sit for 6-8 hours at the train station while I'm at work and pretty much make the noise almost every time these days when I get off the train and get in my car.

My drive to the train station is only about 5 minutes on local roads. However, at night, I am usually driving back from a friends house, which is a 15-20 minute drive on the highway.

So, it must have something to do with the fact that I cold start it in the morning (no noise) and drive it only 5 minutes on local roads, then park it for 6-8 hours = 2 second sewing machine noise on the next start up.

vs.

15-20 minute drive home on highway at night, then park it for 6-8 hours = NO sewing machine noise the next morning.

Can anyone make sense of this? lol

It must have something to do with the engine oil temp not reaching operating temperature during that 5 minute drive in the morning prior to parking it for 6-8 hours.

I observed the ticking for almost 4 years before getting the lifters upgraded. I could find no correlation between time driven and the symptom. It appeared to happen randomly, so I think it may just depend on where in the cycle the problem lifter is when the engine stops.

[MrPace]

I let it warm up a little longer this morning and got the oil to almost operating temp before I parked it...going to see if I get the tick later this afternoon. I really don't want them opening up this relatively new engine with only 10k miles on it if I can avoid it...

[MrPace]

Well, I let the oil temp rise to just under normal operating temperature, and it still made the noise when I got off the train that evening.

But I'm still convinced it has something to do with this, because it almost always makes the noise after sitting at the train station for 8 hours, and it has never made the noise after sitting overnight. It's sitting for the same amount of time in both instances. The only difference is the manner in which I drive the car just prior to it sitting for those 8 hours.

[Blakk11SS]

Regarding the lifter noise, have you been filling up with 91 or 93 octane fuel? It might be bad fuel that's messing with the fuel table. Now I have an '11, Once i had some ticking from lifters, i filled up with 93 from a different station then did the basic fuse pull, let it sit for a couple hours, poped the fuses back in, started 'er up and noise gone. Also make sure you're oil is clean, the engine can get noisy if its in need of a change. Oh, you might need to install a catch-can to eliminate the oil return to intake.

[Low Saturn]

I got my car back Friday and so far no lifter tick at cold or warm starts. I also noticed that it runs quieter a lower RPM's under light acceleration.

[MrPace]

Originally Posted by Blakk11SS

Regarding the lifter noise, have you been filling up with 91 or 93 octane fuel? It might be bad fuel that's messing with the fuel table. Now I have an '11, Once i had some ticking from lifters, i filled up with 93 from a different station then did the basic fuse pull, let it sit for a couple hours, poped the fuses back in, started 'er up and noise gone. Also make sure you're oil is clean, the engine can get noisy if its in need of a change. Oh, you might need to install a catch-can to eliminate the oil return to intake.

Been using 93...oil life is at 45%...been noticing the 2 second ticking at certain cold startups for at least a couple of months now...checked the oil level around 50% oil life and it didn't appear any noticeably lower than when it was last changed.

I've been using Hess gas, which I read on a Silverado thread about lifter tick is crap gas...so I'm going to switch to either Shell or Mobil...not sure why brand of gas might cause lifter tick, but hey, I'm open to experimenting....

[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by MrPace

Been using 93...oil life is at 45%...been noticing the 2 second ticking at certain cold startups for at least a couple of months now...checked the oil level around 50% oil life and it didn't appear any noticeably lower than when it was last changed.

I've been using Hess gas, which I read on a Silverado thread about lifter tick is crap gas...so I'm going to switch to either Shell or Mobil...not sure why brand of gas might cause lifter tick, but hey, I'm open to experimenting....

Obviously, you have been taking adequate care of your engine. Changing the oil more often will not fix the lifter problem.

There are a variety of sounds coming out of the engine, but if yours sounds like the video example, that is EXACTLY the sound of a collapsed AFM lifter before it gets pumped back up when the engine is started.

The lifter problem is due to a parts design problem. The new lifters are a design upgrade. This will be apparent to your dealer when the old lifters come out of your car.

I can think of no other reason for your problem than that GM continued to deplete their stock of the old design lifters or of engines built with the old design lifters into the 2013 model year.

When you have the upgrade done, you will notice not only that the start-up problem is gone, but the valve train will sound noticeably quieter under all conditions. I think there's more peer, too, but I have no objective evidence for that, since the car has never been dyno'd.

Frankly, knowing what I know after going through this, I'm sorry I put up with it for 40,000 miles, and I would even say it's worth $2000, if you have to pay, not that you should!

[MrPace]

Originally Posted by Rock-It Man

There are a variety of sounds coming out of the engine, but if yours sounds like the video example, that is EXACTLY the sound of a collapsed AFM lifter before it gets pumped back up when the engine is started.

So what are the risks of not getting it fixed right away? I'm not sure I'm comfortable having the engine opened up being as it only has 10k miles on it...since it only happens during certain cold starts, I might be inclined to wait until I'm closer to the end of my warranty. Will doing this risk causing other damage? Could the lifter die on me altogether eventually?

I'm not very familiar with the ramifications of such a problem, other than an annoying/embarrassing noise at start up....and seeing how you waited 40k miles to get it fixed, is this considered a serious engine problem?

[Low Saturn]

It's better to have it fixed sooner than later. 10k miles or 100k, it still has to be opened. Have them fix it then drive the hell out of it. If it leaks or breaks, take it back.

For the time of diagnosis to getting the car back was five days for me. And they provided a loaner. I'm on my third day of having car back and so far so good.

[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by MrPace

So what are the risks of not getting it fixed right away? I'm not sure I'm comfortable having the engine opened up being as it only has 10k miles on it...since it only happens during certain cold starts, I might be inclined to wait until I'm closer to the end of my warranty. Will doing this risk causing other damage? Could the lifter die on me altogether eventually?

I'm not very familiar with the ramifications of such a problem, other than an annoying/embarrassing noise at start up....and seeing how you waited 40k miles to get it fixed, is this considered a serious engine problem?

I really don't know the answer, but my observation is that the new lifters are quieter all the time, so I infer that the pressure in them was weak even after pumped up. That can't be good.

I asked the mechanic to look for abnormal cam wear, and he said there wasn't any, but I didn't see for myself.

I admit that I was worried about collateral damage getting this work done, but I talked to the service manager and he had his most senior engine mechanic do the job. This is a small family owned dealership, not one of those mega-chain dealers, and I dealt with them for several years prior to getting this work done.They compete in a region where there are those chain dealers, so their above average service is what keeps them alive.

When the car was returned to me, the engine compartment looked untouched, except maybe cleaner. There have been no leaks or other problems for some weeks now.

No doubt, this is an extensive job because the heads have to come off. However, I cannot imagine owning this car for years to come while worrying about the possible failure of the lifters. And yes, the noise was embarrassing, because all my friends are car guys. So the options I considered were:

1) Trade in
2) Speed shop doing an LS3 conversion
3) TSB upgrade under warranty

Speed shops I contacted wanted to do a package of upgrades including headers, hot cam, etc. and of course a tune is required, which would void the power train warranty.

So I figured if I went for #3 and didn't like the results, I could still go to #1. But the job turned out great, and it cost me nothing except the absence of my Camaro for four days. And I didn't ask for a rental since I have my winter beater.