ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28? - Page 48 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

2cnd chance · 07-23-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLSTWIN

Do you mean when you order the car? I agree.
I believe you can order the stuff at your dealer and have your dealer install them now and it is fine. That is why I wanted to clarify what you meant.

Yes the ability to order it and then have it installed before delivery.

2cnd chance · 07-23-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I don't understand why there is NOT a "formal" relationship between GM Performance Parts and GM Divisions for pre-sale upfits.

Other manufacturers have their "performance boutique" parts that, if supplied/installed prior to first Retail Delivery, carry the Maufacturer's New Vehicle Warranty.

If the OEM-sold parts are up to standards, at premium prices and installed by "Factory-trained techs", and DO NOT COMPROMISE EMISSIONS, then why not?!

[Flame suit suitably worn...]

Yes many other OEMs provide aftermarket parts that they install and support. This is an area were GM needs to think "New" GM not old GM.

*DGthe3* · 07-23-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Yes the ability to order it and then have it installed before delivery.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of the parts & accessories sold through GM Performance Parts can be installed at the dealership before delivery.

JusticePete · 07-23-2011, 09:10 PM

GMPP parts, including Pedders can be ordered and installed through the dealership. There is no formal GM policy regarding the packaging of the parts and installation into the purchase contract for financing. Some dealers will and some won't. I would like to see a Pedders check box for the SS in the form of a check box. The parts would be in a box and not put on at the factory. Strictly dealer install, but still a factory 'option'. Why? if you can order it with the car it isn't upgrade equipment for SCCA purposes. How cool would it be to show up in a STOCK SS with full bushes, bars and Supercars at the autocross or T2???? That is the power of a check box.

TLSTWIN · 07-24-2011, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticePete

GMPP parts, including Pedders can be ordered and installed through the dealership. There is no formal GM policy regarding the packaging of the parts and installation into the purchase contract for financing. Some dealers will and some won't. I would like to see a Pedders check box for the SS in the form of a check box. The parts would be in a box and not put on at the factory. Strictly dealer install, but still a factory 'option'. Why? if you can order it with the car it isn't upgrade equipment for SCCA purposes. How cool would it be to show up in a STOCK SS with full bushes, bars and Supercars at the autocross or T2???? That is the power of a check box.

That would be awesome

Number 3 · 07-24-2011, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I don't understand why there is NOT a "formal" relationship between GM Performance Parts and GM Divisions for pre-sale upfits.

Other manufacturers have their "performance boutique" parts that, if supplied/installed prior to first Retail Delivery, carry the Maufacturer's New Vehicle Warranty.

If the OEM-sold parts are up to standards, at premium prices and installed by "Factory-trained techs", and DO NOT COMPROMISE EMISSIONS, then why not?!

[Flame suit suitably worn...]

Can you be a bit more clear on your point? Every GM program begins with a list of aftermarket parts and accessories. It's not from program conception, but it is very early on.

I think internally we know we could do better job with MORE accessories, but I'm not sure what you mean by no formal relationship between GMPP and GM Divisions.

And only becuase it's my personal pet peave, this isn't an "old GM" vs "new GM" issue.

The best model in the world for this that I know of is Harley Davidson. They make huge amounts of money on accessories and performance upgrades.

LOWDOWN · 07-24-2011, 12:19 PM

What follows, Number 3, is purely an example of a "formal relationship" between a Manufacturer's Sales and Parts departments..."synergy", if you please...or "vertical integration"......

If you take a look at the "formal" relationship between TRD and Toyota, or Lexus and their F-Sport Boutique (really a TRD off-shot), a parts purchase AND installation before 1st Retail Delivery carries the New Vehicle Warranty coverage (of course, depending on the part(s)). In Toyota's case, 36/36. In Lexus' case, 48/50. Instead of the "usual" 12/12 Parts-only Warranty you generally receive at a New Car Parts counter.

This "formal relationship" involves things like polished stainless cat-backs, 14" brakes, lowered coil-overs, monster sway bars, 19" forged wheels (less expensive than a similar-sized BBS rim from Tire Rack - BBS is the Lexus supplier!). Choose one...choose 'em all...choose what YOU want...supplied/installed/warranted! Of course, in the case of brakes, the warranty is against manufacturer's defect, NOT wear...just like any other New Vehicle Warranty. Wanna turn an IS 250 into a pseudo-ISF? And add it to your subvented-rate Financing? Ready-willing-able, the day you take your new pride-'n-joy home? No problem...

If you venture into a Lexus store, you'll see a display, approved and supplied by Parts, sitting in the showroom with a CAI, a c/f Engine Cover, a forged 19", a Stainless Cat-Back, a dropped Coilover, a 14" Big Brake caliper/rotor...in a freakin' LEXUS store! Who'da thunk?! You won't see that sort of thing at a Caddie ("V is for VICTORY") or Buick ("The GS Salon") showroom...or a Chevy ("The BOWTIE Boutique" or "BRIGADE" or [heaven forbid] "The CHEVY SHOP") showroom, generally, for that matter...

The Dealer makes the profit on the parts AND installation. The Customer has "Factory-approved" parts AND installation AND Warranty, and only ONE place to go if a problem occurs. And the Manufacturer has more profit$, happy Dealers, happy Customers...and a greater likelihood of retained business for Sales, Service, AND Parts...

THAT'S what I'm talkin' about as far as a "formal relationship" between GM and GM PP...

It speaks directly to why GM is building the ZL1...not ALL that LS3 hop-up money needs to go to SLP/LPE etc...but THIS sort of "program", assuming certain Parts sold by GM PP are New Vehicle-worthy and -certified and -validated, opens all manner of profit opportunities...and encourages the Aftermarket to construct and deliver OE-validation/complient products.

Right, Pete?

Look at the relationship that has grown between SEMA and GM/Ford/Mopar etc. Significant dollar$ $pent for the first week of November, and the indoor car-show season beyond, trying to get the message across to the enthusiasts that the OEMs are "hip to the cause". Each OEM has their own "performance parts" operations...and, unfortunately, a SEPARATE MISSION without, generally, a New Car Showroom parts display presence OR a New Car upfit presence. That's like swimmin' half way 'cross the creek...and turnin' around!

Take a look at this TOTAL Forum...how many modifications? By how many folks? And how much of that was through GM PP? How much was done at/by a Camaro Dealer? How much was already on the car before/at New Car Delivery? How many folks are waitin' and savin' for this or that? To be bought from whom, or from where?

How many could/should already HAVE it? Covered in their payments?

GM goes to great lengths to arrange "measuring sessions" for soon-to-arrive New Vehicles. How much of that stuff will ever have a GM/GM PP part number? Could MORE be made available? Could MORE be licensed? Could MORE be done?

After all, it IS "new" GM...sorry, Number 3, just had to stick that in...

Really, folks, there's NOT all that much truly "new" stuff/ways/procedures...but there IS a "new" way of lookin' at what IS "out there"... You don't have to "reinvent the wheel". And there's no shame in adapting others' ideas, where meritorious...

2cnd chance · 07-24-2011, 12:34 PM

Number 3 maybe I should have said I'd like to see GM thinking outside the box instead of comparing new to old. I've worked for both small and larger companies and can see the difficulty in steering a barge vs a sailboat. Now I'll refer you back to Lowdown's post. Still friends?

ShnOmac · 07-24-2011, 01:04 PM

I am a little confused..... GMPP does have items you can have the dealer install and keep your waranty. Are you saying you wish it was more of a extensive program???

Number 3 · 07-24-2011, 03:11 PM

No disagreement here. But there are two ways to do this. One is to make some assumptions on the parts and let the dealers intstall them.

The other is to assume all the liability and warranty for those parts. Which mean that they meet or exceed ALL of GM's specifications.

So lets just speculate that there is an example of an aftermarket part that GM wanted to put on it's cars. But when this well know part was tested to GMs standards it FAILED.

Now keep in mind, the aftermarket company does not take the hit for quality, GM does.

So GM takes the more conservative approach and actually assures that the parts you get are up to snuff. It's just that way.

Did you know that the accessory wheels available at GM are run to all of GMs durabilty tests? Yep, they are. GM will not make assumptions on the "goodness" of the parts. So they have to be tested to our standards, not theirs.

Now that being said, could GM do more? Sure they could. But just like most things regarding GM and the Camaro, it isn't as easy as thumbing through a catalogue and picking out parts that you want to cover the warranty for.

And no risk of friendship.

Now GM does offer a lot of parts for the Camaro that fit the bill here through gmpartsdirect.com. But those are mostly dress up items with some exhaust. Could there be chassis upgrades? Yes, but now I have to go retest a lot of things. A performance calibration? Yes, but the same thing occurs. I have to go and retest.

Not sure what other OEMs do but GM does seem to be a little conservative on chassis and powertrain.

OldJedi · 07-24-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

If it makes money it will continue.

SecondChance, I am not in the know like Number3 and certain others, but I would be very, very surprised if the LSA went into the new 6th Gen. chassis no matter how well it sells. I could be really wrong, but I do not see the 6.2 engine in the next Camaro.

OldJedi · 07-24-2011, 05:49 PM

Open question to all:

Other than the Chevy built show car LS7 Camaro built for the SEMA show two years ago, has any one built a Camaro with stock LS7 power and off the shelf suspension to see what this car would actually do?

boxmonkeyracing · 07-24-2011, 06:16 PM

youtube has your answer.

2cnd chance · 07-24-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldJedi

SecondChance, I am not in the know like Number3 and certain others, but I would be very, very surprised if the LSA went into the new 6th Gen. chassis no matter how well it sells. I could be really wrong, but I do not see the 6.2 engine in the next Camaro.

Obviously a ZL1 does not need a specific ZL1 engine.
If they can make money on the car they will find a way to provide a 6Gen ZL1.

07-24-2011, 12:19 PM	#665
LOWDOWN Downright Upright Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Cruisin'... Posts: 4,145	What follows, Number 3, is purely an example of a "formal relationship" between a Manufacturer's Sales and Parts departments..."synergy", if you please...or "vertical integration"...... If you take a look at the "formal" relationship between TRD and Toyota, or Lexus and their F-Sport Boutique (really a TRD off-shot), a parts purchase AND installation before 1st Retail Delivery carries the New Vehicle Warranty coverage (of course, depending on the part(s)). In Toyota's case, 36/36. In Lexus' case, 48/50. Instead of the "usual" 12/12 Parts-only Warranty you generally receive at a New Car Parts counter. This "formal relationship" involves things like polished stainless cat-backs, 14" brakes, lowered coil-overs, monster sway bars, 19" forged wheels (less expensive than a similar-sized BBS rim from Tire Rack - BBS is the Lexus supplier!). Choose one...choose 'em all...choose what YOU want...supplied/installed/warranted! Of course, in the case of brakes, the warranty is against manufacturer's defect, NOT wear...just like any other New Vehicle Warranty. Wanna turn an IS 250 into a pseudo-ISF? And add it to your subvented-rate Financing? Ready-willing-able, the day you take your new pride-'n-joy home? No problem... If you venture into a Lexus store, you'll see a display, approved and supplied by Parts, sitting in the showroom with a CAI, a c/f Engine Cover, a forged 19", a Stainless Cat-Back, a dropped Coilover, a 14" Big Brake caliper/rotor...in a freakin' LEXUS store! Who'da thunk?! You won't see that sort of thing at a Caddie ("V is for VICTORY") or Buick ("The GS Salon") showroom...or a Chevy ("The BOWTIE Boutique" or "BRIGADE" or [heaven forbid] "The CHEVY SHOP") showroom, generally, for that matter... The Dealer makes the profit on the parts AND installation. The Customer has "Factory-approved" parts AND installation AND Warranty, and only ONE place to go if a problem occurs. And the Manufacturer has more profit$, happy Dealers, happy Customers...and a greater likelihood of retained business for Sales, Service, AND Parts... THAT'S what I'm talkin' about as far as a "formal relationship" between GM and GM PP... It speaks directly to why GM is building the ZL1...not ALL that LS3 hop-up money needs to go to SLP/LPE etc...but THIS sort of "program", assuming certain Parts sold by GM PP are New Vehicle-worthy and -certified and -validated, opens all manner of profit opportunities...and encourages the Aftermarket to construct and deliver OE-validation/complient products. Right, Pete? Look at the relationship that has grown between SEMA and GM/Ford/Mopar etc. Significant dollar$ $pent for the first week of November, and the indoor car-show season beyond, trying to get the message across to the enthusiasts that the OEMs are "hip to the cause". Each OEM has their own "performance parts" operations...and, unfortunately, a SEPARATE MISSION without, generally, a New Car Showroom parts display presence OR a New Car upfit presence. That's like swimmin' half way 'cross the creek...and turnin' around! Take a look at this TOTAL Forum...how many modifications? By how many folks? And how much of that was through GM PP? How much was done at/by a Camaro Dealer? How much was already on the car before/at New Car Delivery? How many folks are waitin' and savin' for this or that? To be bought from whom, or from where? How many could/should already HAVE it? Covered in their payments? GM goes to great lengths to arrange "measuring sessions" for soon-to-arrive New Vehicles. How much of that stuff will ever have a GM/GM PP part number? Could MORE be made available? Could MORE be licensed? Could MORE be done? After all, it IS "new" GM...sorry, Number 3, just had to stick that in... Really, folks, there's NOT all that much truly "new" stuff/ways/procedures...but there IS a "new" way of lookin' at what IS "out there"... You don't have to "reinvent the wheel". And there's no shame in adapting others' ideas, where meritorious... Last edited by LOWDOWN; 07-24-2011 at 01:24 PM.

07-24-2011, 03:11 PM	#668
Number 3 Hail to the King baby! Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 12,172 View My Garage	No disagreement here. But there are two ways to do this. One is to make some assumptions on the parts and let the dealers intstall them. The other is to assume all the liability and warranty for those parts. Which mean that they meet or exceed ALL of GM's specifications. So lets just speculate that there is an example of an aftermarket part that GM wanted to put on it's cars. But when this well know part was tested to GMs standards it FAILED. Now keep in mind, the aftermarket company does not take the hit for quality, GM does. So GM takes the more conservative approach and actually assures that the parts you get are up to snuff. It's just that way. Did you know that the accessory wheels available at GM are run to all of GMs durabilty tests? Yep, they are. GM will not make assumptions on the "goodness" of the parts. So they have to be tested to our standards, not theirs. Now that being said, could GM do more? Sure they could. But just like most things regarding GM and the Camaro, it isn't as easy as thumbing through a catalogue and picking out parts that you want to cover the warranty for. And no risk of friendship. Now GM does offer a lot of parts for the Camaro that fit the bill here through gmpartsdirect.com. But those are mostly dress up items with some exhaust. Could there be chassis upgrades? Yes, but now I have to go retest a lot of things. A performance calibration? Yes, but the same thing occurs. I have to go and retest. Not sure what other OEMs do but GM does seem to be a little conservative on chassis and powertrain. __________________ "Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley

07-24-2011, 05:49 PM	#670
OldJedi Use the Force Drives: 2015 Corvette Z51, 2018 Porsche GTS Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Davie, Fl. Posts: 3,862	Open question to all: Other than the Chevy built show car LS7 Camaro built for the SEMA show two years ago, has any one built a Camaro with stock LS7 power and off the shelf suspension to see what this car would actually do? __________________ Walk softly, carry a light saber and drive a ZL1!

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07-23-2011, 09:10 PM	#662
JusticePete Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 20,174	GMPP parts, including Pedders can be ordered and installed through the dealership. There is no formal GM policy regarding the packaging of the parts and installation into the purchase contract for financing. Some dealers will and some won't. I would like to see a Pedders check box for the SS in the form of a check box. The parts would be in a box and not put on at the factory. Strictly dealer install, but still a factory 'option'. Why? if you can order it with the car it isn't upgrade equipment for SCCA purposes. How cool would it be to show up in a STOCK SS with full bushes, bars and Supercars at the autocross or T2???? That is the power of a check box.

07-24-2011, 12:34 PM	#666
2cnd chance Too Many Great Choices Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: A Mountain Road Posts: 7,454	Number 3 maybe I should have said I'd like to see GM thinking outside the box instead of comparing new to old. I've worked for both small and larger companies and can see the difficulty in steering a barge vs a sailboat. Now I'll refer you back to Lowdown's post. Still friends?

07-24-2011, 01:04 PM	#667
ShnOmac Drives: 2006 Silverado SS, 2009 G8 GT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: PNW Posts: 13,313	I am a little confused..... GMPP does have items you can have the dealer install and keep your waranty. Are you saying you wish it was more of a extensive program???