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Old 09-27-2011, 01:04 PM   #1
Jims73z
 
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How Refined is the 5th Gen ?

If I'm coming from a fourth gen f-body convertible how much more BMW like is the new camaro? Does it feel like G8 which its based on? I'm buying a coupe this time so I'm sure there's lots of difference there. I'm thinking they should be completely different animals. My ss has horrendous road noise, I can't even use the phone top up. Planning on renting before I buy but not really looking at other cars. I'm a camaroholic.........
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:18 PM   #2
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Road noise is not at all an issue in the SS coupe if you don't have aftermarket exhaust. It's very quiet in cabin if you keep the RPMs below 2.5k. (not sure about the new vert, I'd assume it is louder though)

It is not "refined" however, but it is definitely more refined than the 4th gen. You won't find gadgets like you will find in a BMW. You can't get nav, but the BA audio system sounds great and handling is also superb compared to a family sedan.

The leather interior adds a touch of refinement and in 2012 you can finally sleep on your dash as car reviewers constantly complained that the dash wasn't soft enough. So I suppose if that was your dream, to sleep on your dash, you can now do it.

The ambient lighting, if you chose a 2LT or 2SS is also a nice touch and it reminds you that you are sitting inside of a design masterpiece.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:30 PM   #3
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the suspension feels pretty soft to me. my 328i feels much better all around suspension wise even my moms CTS feels better. i feel the camaro is refined for sure. the BA sound system is alright,its about half as good as my 328i, my moms CTS is also little better than the BA. so the non- BA PKG must be horrible. so get the BA audio ! road noise is not a problem at all. the car is going to feel heavier than the older gens also.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:36 PM   #4
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My non-BA system is actually excellent.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:58 PM   #5
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i had a 2000 Z28 for 7 years until i bought my 2007 bmw 530i last year. i just sold my 2007 bmw 530i this year and test drove many camaros before deciding to order one. i had a lot of problems with bmw and that's why i sold it, though it was a lot better from a technological perspective than the 4th gen. i can understand your concerns. the camaro is surprising in this aspect though. the things i like about the 530i that the camaro doesn't have:

-memory seats
-auto windshield wipers
-NAV

everything else that is in a newer bmw is pretty much in the camaro, from small things like the auto 3-click turn signal, to heated seats, bluetooth, usb, rearview camera, garage door openers, to mpg readers, DIC, and outside temp gauges and more. you wouldn't find any of these in the 4th gen for the most part. but the NAV is something that people believe is a HUGE addition. truth is, after 6 months of owning the bmw, i never even really used it, so i don't really find that to be a big deal. had i not owned a car with NAV prior to buying the 2012 camaro, i would probably be pissed that the car didn't have it, and think that it was a very necessary addition.

the suspension is fantastic--the car is every bit as smooth and quiet as my bmw. the 2012 suspension is not stiffer than the 2011 suspension during relaxed driving circumstances, and that is a fact. though when you need it to be stiff at higher speeds, it is very smooth. the boston sound system i think sounds a lot better than my bmw's system did. i didn't have the highest upgrade of speakers in the bmw though, but even those don't sound that good to me. the nice thing about the BA system is that a simple and relatively inexpensive amp upgrade will make the system mounds better than any bmw and a lot of other cars.

as for refined, it's still a muscle car. part of what i consider refined are other people's perception of your car and the car's reputation. not that i care, but if i drive my bmw in highland park in dallas (one of the richest neighborhoods in the country), nobody even notices me because it's normal. in the camaro however, i'll probably get looks of "oh that's a kid" or "he clearly doesn't live in this neighbor since he doesn't drive a more expensive car." even though in reality, it's a car i paid more for than my bmw.

some little things bug me about the camaro. the interior is not as nice looking as the bmw interior. just the setup really. the gauges in the center are a little silly and there are parts of the car that give up that almost "toy car" feel, but that does not detract from the capabilities the car has by any means.

Last edited by kiteman; 09-27-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:02 PM   #6
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Suspension issues are all in the eye of the beholder too. The BMWs have very stiff suspension, which is VERY good for handling, but ride quality suffers. The SS has stiffer suspension than the LT/LS, but ride quality is still good. But if you want better road handling, you can always upgrade your suspension for pretty cheap. the 2012 SS has improved suspension, but I have no experience with it, but I'm assuming it's a bit stiffer.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:45 PM   #7
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I think I'm making a solid decision as the 4th gen suspension and ride are basically designed in the seventies early eighties. I want a solid adult car I'm 53 for Gods sake and I have a 73 z28 thats obnoxious. I've driven plenty of cars and my ss convertible is only a little better riding than my 84 corvette z51. Thanks for the input and I welcome more comments.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #8
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Like others mentions 2012 you get the fe4 suspention. I would imagine it's more refined.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:33 PM   #9
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My wife and i have had numerous 4th gens and 2 G8 GT's, the 5th Gen Camaro is much more comfortable than either car the interior noise is nowhere near what the 4th gen or G8 have. the seats are very comfortable, leather is nice and soft compared to the g8's althought not as wide. The ride quality is very good, i drive up and down I95 from the DC area to NC which is abusive to say the least and it handles them nicely.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims73z View Post
If I'm coming from a fourth gen f-body convertible how much more BMW like is the new camaro? Does it feel like G8 which its based on? I'm buying a coupe this time so I'm sure there's lots of difference there. I'm thinking they should be completely different animals. My ss has horrendous road noise, I can't even use the phone top up. Planning on renting before I buy but not really looking at other cars. I'm a camaroholic.........
I'll confine my comments to my area of expertise. The Camaro does feel like the G8 in many respects. The biggest difference between a Camaro and G8 is the longer G8 wheel base. The changes made to the Camaro suspension compared to the G8 are mostly for durability with more HP larger brakes, wheels and tires. The ball joints in the front are larger including the studs. The Camaro knuckle is aluminum to reduce unsprung weight. The front radius bush is larger. The rear is almost a clone to the G8 with larger diameter sub-frame bushes.

Many people will comment of the softness of the suspension and amount of body lean and roll. The damping on the 10 /11 has been changed to improve that on thee 12. The rear sway bar mounting points were moved closer to the wheel to improve efficiency. The change in rear bar mounting position with a very small increase in bar diameter improves the overall balance of the 12. The details aside, all three production year 5th Gens will stick far better than they they feel. It is an adjustment the driver must make as they become more comfortable and confident in the car.

The monocoque is robust. This is a significant difference compared to the G8. Keep in mind the G8 is a very well built vehicle with a solid monocoque, but the Camaro is just that much better. The more solid the 'chassis' the better for suspension function. The Camaro is the best of class in this area (Challenger, Mustang and Camaro) and compares favorably with anything coming out of Europe.

Compared to your 4th gen your new Camaro will feel big, quiet almost luxury car like. Your 4th Gen has excellent balance with the engine shoved so far back. The balance of the 4th Gen is in my opinion the best quality of the 4th Gen. On the flip side, where the 4th gen begged for every aftermarket brace available, the 5th gen is so solid it doesn't need any. I can't imagine you won't love a 2012 5th Gen.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:06 PM   #11
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My sentiments too. I moved from a new Hyundai Sonata to the Camaro and it's a much more solid, quiet and refined riding car. Previous to the Hyundai I had Volvo's mostly. I'm delighted, it remind me a lot of my 1999 Volvo S70 Turbo - refined power and a heavy riding feel but with good well balanced handling. I was looking for a "classy sport sedan" that wouldn't be boring, and I found it.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab2g View Post
Suspension issues are all in the eye of the beholder too. The BMWs have very stiff suspension, which is VERY good for handling, but ride quality suffers. The SS has stiffer suspension than the LT/LS, but ride quality is still good. But if you want better road handling, you can always upgrade your suspension for pretty cheap. the 2012 SS has improved suspension, but I have no experience with it, but I'm assuming it's a bit stiffer.
no more stiff than my 2011 was. The SS rides very smooth.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteman View Post
as for refined, it's still a muscle car. part of what i consider refined are other people's perception of your car and the car's reputation. not that i care, but if i drive my bmw in highland park in dallas (one of the richest neighborhoods in the country), nobody even notices me because it's normal. in the camaro however, i'll probably get looks of "oh that's a kid" or "he clearly doesn't live in this neighbor since he doesn't drive a more expensive car." even though in reality, it's a car i paid more for than my bmw.
you need test drive the new BMWs. 2007 come on dude . thats like comparing a 2007 GT to a 2011 5.0L. they updated a lot of thing in 2010. my 328i handles better than my camaro and its a 328i, can only dream of m3, and i got the best speakers possible for my model. no way in hell does it compare to BA system. but the car does cost more. 10k more
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:19 PM   #14
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What I would say to keep it short and sweat is, It's light years ahead of the 4th gens in refinement and light years behind a BMW in refinement. If you want a GM vehicle that is refined like a BMW then buy a CTS-v. It's way ahead of a BMW.
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