Forced Induction on a DI 3.6L V6

[09CobaltSS/Turbo]

For all of you wondering about the DI v6 . I own a 2.0 LNF Turbo charged Chevy Cobalt as it states in my sig. I have a few mods. Mainly just a tune.

These 2.0's put out 260/260 Stock. With a tune and just a couple bolt ons guys are putting down 330 WHP + 360FT trq on a 2.0 with mostly just a tune running around 22.5 PSI on a stock K04 turbo. I have a tune. Some guys are running 13.5's and some are even dipping into the high 12's on a FWD 2900 lbs car with less then half the displacement of the 3.6 running drag radials . The compression ratio of the DI LNF 2.0 is 9.2:1

The 3.6 DI is 11.3:1. Provided we crack the ECU for the new 3.6 L DI and add a turbo to it we are going to see HUGE numbers. With some aftermarket support I am guessing the new 3.6 DI will be known as well as the 2jz Supra engine .. Which handles boost very well.. With a good tuner and turbo I Imagaine the v6 to push around 450 - 500 HP+ with no problems. I am at 300HP on 340 Lbs trq STOCK on a 2.0 LNF so 300 HP from the 3.6 IS VERY conservative .. tune it and I bet we will be seeing 350 HP. Add a turbo and you will be seeing a lot more ...

Just my 2 cents. I am thinking about trading in my Cobalt for a 2010 Camaro v6 just to put the turbo on it and turn it into a tuner. The old school v8 muscle bound people I think need to be open to the v6 - I know of MANY supras that will pile drive any vette or cobra on the streets. the Supras 2jz is a very well respected powerplant and all I am saying is the v6 isn't going to be a slouch by any means.

[nfamous209]

i wont compare the 3.6Di to a 2JZ quite yet. as we dont know what the internals of the engine can handle. the 2JZ has pretty strong internals, thats why it can handle boost with ease. so to say that the 3.6 DI can push 450-500hp is hard. can it handle it with forged internals yes. but stock internals, thats the big ??????. i'm sure it can handle some decent power. oh and i believe the compression of the LNF is 9.2:1 not 10:1

[09CobaltSS/Turbo]

Originally Posted by nfamous209

i wont compare the 3.6Di to a 2JZ quite yet. as we dont know what the internals of the engine can handle. the 2JZ has pretty strong internals, thats why it can handle boost with ease. so to say that the 3.6 DI can push 450-500hp is hard. can it handle it with forged internals yes. but stock internals, thats the big ??????. i'm sure it can handle some decent power. oh and i believe the compression of the LNF is 9.2:1 not 10:1

The 2jz isn't a direct injected engine. Most of the high HP 2jz's you see are also NOT running stock internals ... So my point being with some time provided the fuel system for the 3.6 L isn't limiting it to 305 HP already we will see higher numbers with a tune and later on down the road if forged internals become available it will be a respected motor.. Plenty of guys who own 2jz's can vouche for the simple fact that the motor stock can't handle past 450 HP without blowing rings etc. DI injection requires a very high PSI and the injectors are usually the limiting factor of how much HP you can gain with the stock Fuel system . Running WOT on a 2.0 produces in the range of 2200 PSI to achieve the pressure levels it requires at that high of RPM ...

Adding 2 more cylinders just means you are going to need an even higher pressure fuel pump along with some other things but DI technology allows you to run a good amount of boost efficiently without requiring top of the line forged internals because the fuel is injected into the cylinder similiar to diesels . A lot of trq to be had from DI ...

[truth411]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

For all of you wondering about the DI v6 . I own a 2.0 LNF Turbo charged Chevy Cobalt as it states in my sig. I have a few mods. Mainly just a tune.

These 2.0's put out 260/260 Stock. With a tune and just a couple bolt ons guys are putting down 330 WHP + 360FT trq on a 2.0 with mostly just a tune running around 22.5 PSI on a stock K04 turbo. I have a tune. Some guys are running 13.5's and some are even dipping into the high 12's on a FWD 2900 lbs car with less then half the displacement of the 3.6 running drag radials . The compression ratio of the DI LNF 2.0 is 9.2:1

The 3.6 DI is 11.3:1. Provided we crack the ECU for the new 3.6 L DI and add a turbo to it we are going to see HUGE numbers. With some aftermarket support I am guessing the new 3.6 DI will be known as well as the 2jz Supra engine .. Which handles boost very well.. With a good tuner and turbo I Imagaine the v6 to push around 450 - 500 HP+ with no problems. I am at 300HP on 340 Lbs trq STOCK on a 2.0 LNF so 300 HP from the 3.6 IS VERY conservative .. tune it and I bet we will be seeing 350 HP. Add a turbo and you will be seeing a lot more ...

Just my 2 cents. I am thinking about trading in my Cobalt for a 2010 Camaro v6 just to put the turbo on it and turn it into a tuner. The old school v8 muscle bound people I think need to be open to the v6 - I know of MANY supras that will pile drive any vette or cobra on the streets. the Supras 2jz is a very well respected powerplant and all I am saying is the v6 isn't going to be a slouch by any means.

Maybe Stock vettes, but the Modded vettes I have seen with Turbos and Positve displacement superchargers, I highly doubt a supra can hang with todays vette mod for mod. If i remeber correctly Supras are heavier cars and some vettes I have seen are putting close to 700hp (Z06 with F.I.) at the wheels. But in the end, it depends at how much money you have to burn on your car.

[nfamous209]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

The 2jz isn't a direct injected engine. Most of the high HP 2jz's you see are also NOT running stock internals ... So my point being with some time provided the fuel system for the 3.6 L isn't limiting it to 305 HP already we will see higher numbers with a tune and later on down the road if forged internals become available it will be a respected motor.. Plenty of guys who own 2jz's can vouche for the simple fact that the motor stock can't handle past 450 HP without blowing rings etc. DI injection requires a very high PSI and the injectors are usually the limiting factor of how much HP you can gain with the stock Fuel system . Running WOT on a 2.0 produces in the range of 2200 PSI to achieve the pressure levels it requires at that high of RPM ...

Adding 2 more cylinders just means you are going to need an even higher pressure fuel pump along with some other things but DI technology allows you to run a good amount of boost efficiently without requiring top of the line forged internals because the fuel is injected into the cylinder similiar to diesels . A lot of trq to be had from DI ...

I didnt say the 2JZ was DI, did I? no i didnot. ur question was kind of empty to begin with. u should have stated stock internals or forged internals etc. hell forged internals it better damn well handle n e thing u throw at it. and stock internal 2JZ is capable of the 450-500whp fairly easily. but then again there are variations of the 2JZ which have stronger internals. 2JZ GTE (single turbo), 2JZ GTTE (twin turbo). turbo variations are the one that i was refering to to be able to handle the 450+whp. the standard 2JZ has fairly weak internals imo, it is capable of 450whp, but i dont like the reliability factor. I'd be more confident in a 450whp 2JZGTE, seeing as in how internals are better from the factory.

ur statement just accounts for fuel, u need to take in account how strong the block and internals are. lots of factors in trying to achieve high hp. not just fuel.

I know my shit. I do lots of research on the competition.

[Crowley]

The good thing about DI is the ablitiy to put some boost in with a higher Compression Ratio .. It will be interesting to see what the limits are with the 3.6L. I'm thinking it will put up some pretty good numbers with a good tune, but I don't think you will see just over 400rwhp as a standard max until more research is done into fuel delivery etc ..

Crowley

[09CobaltSS/Turbo]

Originally Posted by nfamous209

I didnt say the 2JZ was DI, did I? no i didnot. ur question was kind of empty to begin with. u should have stated stock internals or forged internals etc. hell forged internals it better damn well handle n e thing u throw at it. and stock internal 2JZ is capable of the 450-500whp fairly easily. but then again there are variations of the 2JZ which have stronger internals. 2JZ GTE (single turbo), 2JZ GTTE (twin turbo). turbo variations are the one that i was refering to to be able to handle the 450+whp. the standard 2JZ has fairly weak internals imo, it is capable of 450whp, but i dont like the reliability factor. I'd be more confident in a 450whp 2JZGTE, seeing as in how internals are better from the factory.

ur statement just accounts for fuel, u need to take in account how strong the block and internals are. lots of factors in trying to achieve high hp. not just fuel.

I know my shit. I do lots of research on the competition.

Sounds like you do. I am just saying from experience and ventures of the new 2.0 LNF Turbo DI engine The limting factors for this motor are the Pistons & fueling/tuning , which are cast and rest is pretty well forged in the LNF which I haven't seen any detailed info on this 3.6 yet except this:

Features found on the 3.6-liter VVT DI include:
Aluminum engine block and cylinder heads
Dual overhead cams with four valves per cylinder and silent chain primary drive
High-pressure, engine-driven fuel pump
Advanced multi-outlet fuel injectors developed to withstand high pressure and heat
Stainless steel, variable pressure fuel rail
Four-cam phasing (VVT – see description below)
11.3:1 compression ratio
Aluminum pistons with floating wrist pins and oil squirters
Polymer coated piston skirts
Forged steel crankshaft
Sinter-forged connecting rods
Structural cast-aluminum oil pan with steel baffles
Electronic throttle control with integrated cruise control
Coil-on-plug ignition
Advanced direct injection capable engine control module (ECM)
Optimized exhaust manifolds with close-coupled catalytic converters
Fully isolated composite camshaft covers
Outstanding noise, vibration and harshness control
Maximum durability with minimum maintenanceCommon manufacturing practices for efficiency and exceptional quality

These are going to be your 2 limiting factors everything else is pretty well accounted for as far as being stock. Like I said we cobalt guys are limited to around 400 WHP and thats with a HUGE garett gt28R kit. Still a 2.0, Aluminum pistons on the 3.6 and Fueling .. I am sure with aftermarket this motor will be hitting 600 WHP . The cobalt has cast pistons and guys are pushing 400WHP with no problems, same with the soltice guys. The lag and SURGE is because of the high pressure DI and only just a short window of time to spray the fuel in .

[Grape Ape]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

Adding 2 more cylinders just means you are going to need an even higher pressure fuel pump along with some other things but DI technology allows you to run a good amount of boost efficiently without requiring top of the line forged internals because the fuel is injected into the cylinder similiar to diesels . A lot of trq to be had from DI ...

Wouldn't you need higher volume at the same pressure?

[ZeeTwentyFour]

All this talk gets me excited. I used to frequent the cobaltss.net boards. I know of one guy who swapped a turbo on a LSJ block, IIRC it was running 400+ at the wheels. Glad to know we can apply some of the LNF tech to our engine.

[nfamous209]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

Sounds like you do. I am just saying from experience and ventures of the new 2.0 LNF Turbo DI engine The limting factors for this motor are the Pistons & fueling/tuning , which are cast and rest is pretty well forged in the LNF which I haven't seen any detailed info on this 3.6 yet except this:

Features found on the 3.6-liter VVT DI include:
Aluminum engine block and cylinder heads
Dual overhead cams with four valves per cylinder and silent chain primary drive
High-pressure, engine-driven fuel pump
Advanced multi-outlet fuel injectors developed to withstand high pressure and heat
Stainless steel, variable pressure fuel rail
Four-cam phasing (VVT – see description below)
11.3:1 compression ratio
Aluminum pistons with floating wrist pins and oil squirters
Polymer coated piston skirts
Forged steel crankshaft
Sinter-forged connecting rods
Structural cast-aluminum oil pan with steel baffles
Electronic throttle control with integrated cruise control
Coil-on-plug ignition
Advanced direct injection capable engine control module (ECM)
Optimized exhaust manifolds with close-coupled catalytic converters
Fully isolated composite camshaft covers
Outstanding noise, vibration and harshness control
Maximum durability with minimum maintenanceCommon manufacturing practices for efficiency and exceptional quality

These are going to be your 2 limiting factors everything else is pretty well accounted for as far as being stock. Like I said we cobalt guys are limited to around 400 WHP and thats with a HUGE garett gt28R kit. Still a 2.0, Aluminum pistons on the 3.6 and Fueling .. I am sure with aftermarket this motor will be hitting 600 WHP . The cobalt has cast pistons and guys are pushing 400WHP with no problems, same with the soltice guys. The lag and SURGE is because of the high pressure DI and only just a short window of time to spray the fuel in .

the LNF is a great engine. i wish they used slightly stronger pistons, and that engine would be the next 4G63, and we know how popular those engines were. capable of around 500hp on stock internals. so far the LNF is withstanding the 400whp mark, which is very impressive. I'm loving how its responding to mods. only time will tell on the potential of the 3.6, I do hope GM did good by building it strong to withstand some power.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

These 2.0's put out 260/260 Stock. With a tune and just a couple bolt ons guys are putting down 330 WHP + 360FT trq

260hp/260hp stock is about 220WHP roughly. So with a tune and a couple of bolts ons you can get about 110WHP? Those are some amazing numbers.

[09CobaltSS/Turbo]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

260hp/260hp stock is about 220WHP roughly. So with a tune and a couple of bolts ons you can get about 110WHP? Those are some amazing numbers.

Yeah but that is only because it has a turbo from the factory and " nanny " control. The ECU limits the HP and trq so that no matter what it is always at around 260/260 .... and usually 15-18 is the max amount of PSI that it will do un-tuned depending on elevation, and climate. A tuned LNF takes away the nanny control and changes the A/F ratio to allow Maximum Boost and the car will accept MODS without throwing a CEL. GM put a very conservative tune on the LNF only to release a stage kit for the LNF giving people 300/340 warrantied, all they did was add a 3 bar MAP sensor and a couple other little sensors + a new tune. They have not released a stage kit for the Cobalts yet only HHR SOLSTICE GXP , SKY REDLINE. Because the DI motor going into the Camaro will be naturaly aspirated I guess only another 25HP/30Trq to be had out of tuning alone. CAFE and Emissions is why we are seing such conservative tunes but I find after tuning I get better MPG's becuase It gets up to speed faster without wrapping it through all the gears.

Who ever said DI can cause problems and is hard to work with just doesn't understand the nature of the technology ... In fact more HP can be had a lot easier out of a DI engine VS FI engines with the right tuning capabilities. We 2.0 LNF DI guys have come to the fork in the road and that is we cannot access the Fuel tables wee need to tell the Direct injectors to squirt the fuel in any faster and the stock LNF DI's are what is limiting us but no worries HAHN has come up with a solution to add another fuel rail to the manifold causing the turbo to be almost 50% more efficient. A lot is to be learned from the LNF carrying over to the 3.6 DI ... Basically all the foot work will be done for you 3.6 L guys and the more people following the tuner scene the better.

HPTuners will have the Camaros ECU cracked in no time at all I am sure of this .. If new pistons are even required to crack 500 WHP I would be suprised. GM has recently thrown down the gauntlet and we will be seeing 600WHP Cobalts and Solstices by the end of this year . I promise you that.
GM has put a lot into these new platforms with the "tuners" in mind because ultimately High performance cars is what gets recognition in this world.

The SKyline GTR was an awsome car so many people thought the new GTR to be of the same Caliber only to find the transmissions grenading etc etc One guy reporting 2000 dollar maintenance fees just to change the fluids in the thing ... IMO the V8's should just be phased out of the economy sports car market and only for the High end muscles like Vettes and Cobras .. NISSAN lost their asses on that car and now say the new Spec V GTR will not be released to Amercian because we "Aren't Ready for it" Yeah well f off Nissan we don't want your transmissions and you just disrespected America and car enthusiasts across the Globe. Just because of that ignorant statement I will never buy any foreign car or even think about buying a foreign car no matter how cool it may seem ( like a genesis coupe.) speaking of the genesis coupe they are slow heavy pigs and the 4 cyl version has way more potential then the v6 being a 4b11 BLOCK and the rest of the car is pretty well Hyundais parts ( heads etc ) the world motor is also founf in the Caliber SRT4 and ofcourse the Mitsubishi Lancer and we all know the EVOs can be 500 AWHP + very easily from a 4 cyl so a lot of competition in the market right now. GM has stepped up their game and understand what we want and expect from a V6 performance car given the NISSAN 350z only comes with a v6 that a lot of people super charge ( the DE motors Blow up pretty easily) and I am sure that GM's 3.6 will haul more ass then that they are at around 450 HP supercharged on a stock v6 FI DE motor...

Mustang v6 twin turbo - 600 WHP ......

More like that just look on youtube ... v6's are lighter and more efficient with boost. Think about the Grand National GNX

Here is some food for thought

And how old is this car ? v6 turbo 25 years ago 500 HP .. I Love spanking bigger dispacement cars with a FI car..

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by 09CobaltSS/Turbo

Yeah but that is only because it has a turbo from the factory and " nanny " control. The ECU limits the HP and trq so that no matter what it is always at around 260/260 .... and usually 15-18 is the max amount of PSI that it will do un-tuned depending on elevation, and climate. A tuned LNF takes away the nanny control and changes the A/F ratio to allow Maximum Boost and the car will accept MODS without throwing a CEL. GM put a very conservative tune on the LNF only to release a stage kit for the LNF giving people 300/340 warrantied, all they did was add a 3 bar MAP sensor and a couple other little sensors + a new tune. They have not released a stage kit for the Cobalts yet only HHR SOLSTICE GXP , SKY REDLINE. Because the DI motor going into the Camaro will be naturaly aspirated I guess only another 25HP/30Trq to be had out of tuning alone. CAFE and Emissions is why we are seing such conservative tunes but I find after tuning I get better MPG's becuase It gets up to speed faster without wrapping it through all the gears.

Who ever said DI can cause problems and is hard to work with just doesn't understand the nature of the technology ... In fact more HP can be had a lot easier out of a DI engine VS FI engines with the right tuning capabilities. We 2.0 LNF DI guys have come to the fork in the road and that is we cannot access the Fuel tables wee need to tell the Direct injectors to squirt the fuel in any faster and the stock LNF DI's are what is limiting us but no worries HAHN has come up with a solution to add another fuel rail to the manifold causing the turbo to be almost 50% more efficient. A lot is to be learned from the LNF carrying over to the 3.6 DI ... Basically all the foot work will be done for you 3.6 L guys and the more people following the tuner scene the better.

HPTuners will have the Camaros ECU cracked in no time at all I am sure of this .. If new pistons are even required to crack 500 WHP I would be suprised. GM has recently thrown down the gauntlet and we will be seeing 600WHP Cobalts and Solstices by the end of this year . I promise you that.
GM has put a lot into these new platforms with the "tuners" in mind because ultimately High performance cars is what gets recognition in this world.

The SKyline GTR was an awsome car so many people thought the new GTR to be of the same Caliber only to find the transmissions grenading etc etc One guy reporting 2000 dollar maintenance fees just to change the fluids in the thing ... IMO the V8's should just be phased out of the economy sports car market and only for the High end muscles like Vettes and Cobras .. NISSAN lost their asses on that car and now say the new Spec V GTR will not be released to Amercian because we "Aren't Ready for it" Yeah well f off Nissan we don't want your transmissions and you just disrespected America and car enthusiasts across the Globe. Just because of that ignorant statement I will never buy any foreign car or even think about buying a foreign car no matter how cool it may seem ( like a genesis coupe.) speaking of the genesis coupe they are slow heavy pigs and the 4 cyl version has way more potential then the v6 being a 4b11 BLOCK and the rest of the car is pretty well Hyundais parts ( heads etc ) the world motor is also founf in the Caliber SRT4 and ofcourse the Mitsubishi Lancer and we all know the EVOs can be 500 AWHP + very easily from a 4 cyl so a lot of competition in the market right now. GM has stepped up their game and understand what we want and expect from a V6 performance car given the NISSAN 350z only comes with a v6 that a lot of people super charge ( the DE motors Blow up pretty easily) and I am sure that GM's 3.6 will haul more ass then that they are at around 450 HP supercharged on a stock v6 FI DE motor...

Mustang v6 twin turbo - 600 WHP ......

More like that just look on youtube ... v6's are lighter and more efficient with boost. Think about the Grand National GNX

Here is some food for thought

And how old is this car ? v6 turbo 25 years ago 500 HP .. I Love spanking bigger dispacement cars with a FI car..

+1

V6 TT's are the future replacements of V8's, and rightfully so.

I mean, what's the point of a V8 with V6TT's running around that are stronger and more efficient. I know you can TT a V8 as well and be capable of more than a V6 can throw at it, stock bottom end'ed turbo cobras run ~800 rwhp on pump gas, and over 1000 rwhp with fuel, but that's just rediculous. I'd buy a factory V6 turbo car to replace my cobra, if I had the money that is .

[Mohrg Beast]

somebody has to know where to find a tt or regular turbo kit for the 3.6. if you guys know let me know so i can put one on my car..enough talk about it..ill do it if you guys can help me look..alot of people keep saying..'There is a thing called the search button" but i wouldnt be asking this question if i hadnt already searched for two weeks straight for one.lol..if any of you know anything send me a pm or a link or whatever..i went to capa. sent them an email asking for some info cause thats where everyone is saying the turbos and superchargers are being built. seen some great stuff but i dont want to order without some info on them..like if they will actually work on my car. and an estimated hp increase..6k is a ton of money for something that only gives 100 hp..so im looking for some good increase in hp..let me know any buying info you guys can come up with for the v6, ill put it on asap.