Tuning could become copyright violation? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

bluBlud · 11-25-2014, 04:30 PM

Apologies if this was already posted and I missed it... but, did anyone else see this? I'd be suprised if this got anywhere.

Will copyright law stop you from working on your car in the near future?
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/11/25/wil...r-in-the-near/

el-guapin · 11-25-2014, 04:41 PM

That's some Bull Corn!!!... Hope that never passes!

RockerBox · 11-25-2014, 04:56 PM

The CEO of Ford was all over this wanting to pass it. He wanted essentially a sealed hood when you bought the car.

ChrisBlair · 11-25-2014, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockerBox

The CEO of Ford was all over this wanting to pass it. He wanted essentially a sealed hood when you bought the car.

Well. He's certainly a nice man.

3Black · 11-25-2014, 05:46 PM

Evrybody tune before mid 2015

2xSSRS · 11-25-2014, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

Well. He's certainly a nice man.

I knew there was a reason I didn't like Ford.

Dmpsix · 11-25-2014, 05:52 PM

Yeah this is never getting passed.

SmokinDiesel · 11-25-2014, 06:03 PM

This would break anti-compete laws. Would never fly.

pickwithaustin · 11-25-2014, 06:11 PM

I take it a little differently, though not sure if my take on it is correct or not.

I would guess it would not matter if YOU mess with your programming... or even if you hire someone to mess with your programming. After all, if you buy a copy (for instance) of Microsoft Office and then go in and break into the programming code and make changes, for your own use, as long as you paid for the original license I don't think you have done anything illegal. Now... if you hacked into Microsoft Office, made programming changes to the code, and then SOLD COPIES OF IT to other people... then it would be a copyright violation.

Could it be that is what they are referring to? Not people tweaking their program, but rather people who would alter the programming and then start selling that.

(just a thought - not saying that any of it is right or wrong)

BigShow1960 · 11-25-2014, 06:11 PM

So, what if I don't "copy" Ford's tune, but make my own tune. My own personal tune could be unique to both myself and to the unique differences of my car which could include aftermarket parts. Now suppose that I load my tune in the the memory of the controller. The tune data has be be in the same format or structure as the Ford tune. This is necessary because the controller is expecting data to reside in a specific location in memory.

The tune as I understand it is data. Modern music is data. If I were to compare a tune to music... The ECU would be a CD player, iPod, MP3 player, or smart phone. The tune is the music. If I copy Def Leppord's music without paying for it that's a copy right infringement. If I record myself, or if I buy other music, and then play that music then that's not copyright infringement. The structure of the file that the music is in could be in the MP3 format. MP3 is an open format that can be used by anyone, that can't be copyrighted. If for some reason Ford's data structure is copyrighted then there may be a copyright issue.

A way around the copy right is to completely black box the ECU. The black boxed ECU would have the same inputs and outputs as the ECU but would have unique hardware, software, and data. The Tune part of the data could then be replaced without infringing a copyright. However, the cost and risk of a custom tune would increase.

kevint · 11-25-2014, 08:04 PM

that website is awful.

macwest · 11-25-2014, 10:30 PM

The only manufacture that seems to help the enthusiast is GM.

In this case there is no violation since you are not copying it nor selling it. there is only 1 instance used. ALthough as I have said for years government needs to define what buying means in the digital age and if you truly do not own it then the manufacturer needs to clearly identify it on the outside of the product you are buying.

two_wheel_mayhem · 11-25-2014, 11:12 PM

It's actually illegal to alter emissions on a street driven vehicle, so many tuners are already non-compliant to laws. This is because these laws are rarely (ok never) enforced in all but a few states.

As an end user your liabilities and penalties would be minor in the rare instance that you were caught.

tw78911sc · 11-25-2014, 11:43 PM

How can you say that when the 1st tune renders your warranty garbage? I understand why no mfg wants people screwing around with the safe settings that passed EPA and guarantied miles but your on your own when you do and I don't consider that help especially when you want to the bolt a Z28 part onto you car and it too violates the warranty,

Quote:

Originally Posted by macwest

The only manufacture that seems to help the enthusiast is GM.

.

11-25-2014, 04:30 PM	#1
bluBlud Drives: 2013 2SS/RS/1LE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: CT Posts: 483	Tuning could become copyright violation? Apologies if this was already posted and I missed it... but, did anyone else see this? I'd be suprised if this got anywhere. Will copyright law stop you from working on your car in the near future? http://m.autoblog.com/2014/11/25/wil...r-in-the-near/ __________________

11-25-2014, 04:41 PM	#2
el-guapin Trust No One! Drives: 2010 SIM 2LT/RS Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NOLA Posts: 531	That's some Bull Corn!!!... Hope that never passes! __________________

11-25-2014, 06:11 PM	#9
pickwithaustin Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Convertible and: Join Date: May 2014 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,863	I take it a little differently, though not sure if my take on it is correct or not. I would guess it would not matter if YOU mess with your programming... or even if you hire someone to mess with your programming. After all, if you buy a copy (for instance) of Microsoft Office and then go in and break into the programming code and make changes, for your own use, as long as you paid for the original license I don't think you have done anything illegal. Now... if you hacked into Microsoft Office, made programming changes to the code, and then SOLD COPIES OF IT to other people... then it would be a copyright violation. Could it be that is what they are referring to? Not people tweaking their program, but rather people who would alter the programming and then start selling that. (just a thought - not saying that any of it is right or wrong) __________________ --------------------------- Currently in my Garage: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Convertible \| 1980 Corvette Stingray \| 1981 Firebird \| 1968 El Camino \| 2007 Crown Vic Police Interceptor \| 2001 Silverado \| 2001 Blazer \| 1965 Chevy C-10 \| 2007 Harley Softail Custom \| 2013 MX-5 in Copper Red Mica \| 2000 Corvette Convertible \| 2010 Corvette Grand Sport \| 2006 Audi A3 Turbo \| 2008 BMW 328i

11-25-2014, 10:30 PM	#12
macwest Drives: 10 Camaro 2SS/RS, 70 Cuda, 71 Cuda Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Oakley - Northern California Posts: 1,156 View My Garage	The only manufacture that seems to help the enthusiast is GM. In this case there is no violation since you are not copying it nor selling it. there is only 1 instance used. ALthough as I have said for years government needs to define what buying means in the digital age and if you truly do not own it then the manufacturer needs to clearly identify it on the outside of the product you are buying. __________________ "Z28 = first time I bought a new car just to strip parts for my current ride. GM needs to re-think restricted parts. "

11-25-2014, 11:12 PM	#13
two_wheel_mayhem Would rather be riding Drives: No car no more Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,750	It's actually illegal to alter emissions on a street driven vehicle, so many tuners are already non-compliant to laws. This is because these laws are rarely (ok never) enforced in all but a few states. As an end user your liabilities and penalties would be minor in the rare instance that you were caught. __________________ No dog in this fight anymore. 5th Gen owner 2009-2016.

11-25-2014, 04:56 PM	#3
RockerBox Drives: 2010 Silverado. Stock height now Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Springfield Va Posts: 307	The CEO of Ford was all over this wanting to pass it. He wanted essentially a sealed hood when you bought the car.

11-25-2014, 05:46 PM	#5
3Black Account Suspended Drives: 2014 1SS/RS M6 Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: California Posts: 365	Evrybody tune before mid 2015

11-25-2014, 05:52 PM	#7
Dmpsix Drives: Black L99 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,862	Yeah this is never getting passed.

11-25-2014, 06:03 PM	#8
SmokinDiesel Drives: 2014 SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: MI Posts: 46	This would break anti-compete laws. Would never fly.

11-25-2014, 06:11 PM	#10
BigShow1960 BigShow Drives: 2017 1 Camaro + Chevy Avalanche Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tucson Posts: 335	So, what if I don't "copy" Ford's tune, but make my own tune. My own personal tune could be unique to both myself and to the unique differences of my car which could include aftermarket parts. Now suppose that I load my tune in the the memory of the controller. The tune data has be be in the same format or structure as the Ford tune. This is necessary because the controller is expecting data to reside in a specific location in memory. The tune as I understand it is data. Modern music is data. If I were to compare a tune to music... The ECU would be a CD player, iPod, MP3 player, or smart phone. The tune is the music. If I copy Def Leppord's music without paying for it that's a copy right infringement. If I record myself, or if I buy other music, and then play that music then that's not copyright infringement. The structure of the file that the music is in could be in the MP3 format. MP3 is an open format that can be used by anyone, that can't be copyrighted. If for some reason Ford's data structure is copyrighted then there may be a copyright issue. A way around the copy right is to completely black box the ECU. The black boxed ECU would have the same inputs and outputs as the ECU but would have unique hardware, software, and data. The Tune part of the data could then be replaced without infringing a copyright. However, the cost and risk of a custom tune would increase.

11-25-2014, 08:04 PM	#11
kevint Drives: 2013 1SS Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 716	that website is awful.