Kenny Bell questions

[JSalt]

This is my first Camaro (Since the 90's anyway) which I picked up 3 months ago. I have always had mustangs and KB's are very popular on that side.

Question is, am I missing something when comparing all the kits?

For less than the Whipple and Maggie I can get the 2.8L mammoth kit with everything needed for install and they seem to put up some bigger numbers.

They come with 47lb injectors? Most other kits or recommendations I see has 65's and up so that would be my other question. How do they get away with using 47's?

[cc-rider]

Well...look at this....a Kenne Bell question! Love it. I've got a Kenne Bell on my Camaro. They are not that popular here on this forum for various reasons. None of them having to do with how much power they make. They make excellent power.

The 47 lb injectors will work. But they can't tolerate anything other than the base KB kit going on a stock engine. I ran the 47 lb injectors with the stock fuel pump and KB BAP as it comes in the kit all last summer. Now I've added headers and have plans for more in the future so I upgraded my fuel system (see my sig below). But the stock kit worked fine all last year. I put down 525 rwhp with just the base kit on my 100% stock ls3 Camaro.

Now I've put headers on with HF cats...upgraded the fuel system and custom tuned it. I'm now at ~575 rwhp (I put down 520 on a mustang dyno so I'm using the 10-12% correction factor that is commonly used out there when comparing a mustang dyno to a Dynojet dyno). The way I figure it, my headers gave me ~30-40 hp....and the tuning gave me 10-20 hp.

So bottom line...the Kenne Bell blower is an awesome choice. I am very happy with mine. They make great power. I'm happy to answer some more detailed questions if you want. PM me.

[JSalt]

Thanks for clearing that up CC. So, I should just plan for new injectors and fuel pump since i'll put the longtubes on with the blower.

[cc-rider]

I would just plan for that right off the bat. Get the tuner kit from KB. Get yourself some ID1000's (the ones with purple hats), a ZL1 pump, an ADM FPCM...and you'll be good to go.

[cc-rider]

If you decide to go for it...reach out to me and I'll give you some tips and pointers to make it easier.

[VASTREETRACER]

Ive heard the KB has the worst heat soak issues compared to the whipple and Maggie blowers (no evidence to prove it just what ive read and why I went with the whipple)

[cc-rider]

Originally Posted by VASTREETRACER

Ive heard the KB has the worst heat soak issues compared to the whipple and Maggie blowers (no evidence to prove it just what ive read and why I went with the whipple)

This discussion is a long and dangerous road to go down. But why not...let chat about it.

Games are played with IAT's....and they have been played big time here on this board against Kenne Bell. The vendors here have trashed KB good because KB has a direct to consumer sales model and only allows very select few shops to be an approved installer. Whipple allows any shop to sell. I don't know which business model is right in the end. They probably both have their positives and negatives. But it's clear that KB took an awful beating in the Camaro community over their business model. And IAT games was the mental vehicle that vendors used to skew the preference toward Whipple. In some ways, I get it. It gets real hard to blame vendors for trying to push things that they can make money on. This is KB's cross to carry.

It is certainly fair to mention that KB came out with an improved intercooler brick in 2014. So did they have a heat problem in the past? Likely to some extent. On the other side, there are some real life dyno, HP, TQ, and 1/4 mile times that show they make a shit-ton of power in real life. An IAT number is just one part of the equation. Albeit an important one. But a car that lays down 525 hp and consistently runs at 140* IAT is still a better car than one that puts down 500 hp but reports 120* IAT.

Here's another one to think about. Did you know that Whipple fudges the IAT sensor settings in the tune to make it report a lower IAT reading than it actually is? Go over to HP Tuners forum and read about it if you like. Or read about it right here (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257126). When they first put out the Whipple kit for the Camaro, they left the IAT sensor in the air intake tube. Bad idea, but good for IAT bragging rights. When enough people called them out on that, they finally stuck the IAT sensor in the intake manifold after the intercooler but then put sensor settings into the tune that made it report a lower temp (like shown in the link above). Again, good for IAT bragging rights but not entirely truthful. I have to admit that I don't know if they ever finally came clean with true settings in their tune.

But the bottom line is that the Whipple is a great Blower. So is the Kenne Bell. They produce almost identical power and they are both fine blowers. And both will make more power than the TVS2300 series blowers given an equivalent engine build.

[todd69gs]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

This discussion is a long and dangerous road to go down. But why not...let chat about it.
Games are played with IAT's....and they have been played big time here on this board against Kenne Bell. The vendors here have trashed KB good because KB has a direct to consumer sales model and only allows very select few shops to be an approved installer. Whipple allows any shop to sell. I don't know which business model is right in the end. They probably both have their positives and negatives. But it's clear that KB took an awful beating in the Camaro community over their business model. And IAT games was the mental vehicle that vendors used to skew the preference toward Whipple. In some ways, I get it. It gets real hard to blame vendors for trying to push things that they can make money on. This is KB's cross to carry.

It is certainly fair to mention that KB came out with an improved intercooler brick in 2014. So did they have a heat problem in the past? Likely to some extent. On the other side, there are some real life dyno, HP, TQ, and 1/4 mile times that show they make a shit-ton of power in real life. An IAT number is just one part of the equation. Albeit an important one. But a car that lays down 525 hp and consistently runs at 140* IAT is still a better car than one that puts down 500 hp but reports 120* IAT.

Here's another one to think about. Did you know that Whipple fudges the IAT sensor settings in the tune to make it report a lower IAT reading than it actually is? Go over to HP Tuners forum and read about it if you like. Or read about it right here (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257126). When they first put out the Whipple kit for the Camaro, they left the IAT sensor in the air intake tube. Bad idea, but good for IAT bragging rights. When enough people called them out on that, they finally stuck the IAT sensor in the intake manifold after the intercooler but then put sensor settings into the tune that made it report a lower temp (like shown in the link above). Again, good for IAT bragging rights but not entirely truthful. I have to admit that I don't know if they ever finally came clean with true settings in their tune.

But the bottom line is that the Whipple is a great Blower. So is the Kenne Bell. They produce almost identical power and they are both fine blowers. And both will make more power than the TVS2300 series blowers given an equivalent engine build.

I did not know that. Very interesting read.

[PostNup]

Way to go cc-rider!! Nice to impartiality and an emotionless response.

Truth be told... we are all very emotional about our cars and what parts we think are the best. So again, a great and we'll thought out response.

[1KillerSS]

Originally Posted by cc-rider

This discussion is a long and dangerous road to go down. But why not...let chat about it.

Games are played with IAT's....and they have been played big time here on this board against Kenne Bell. The vendors here have trashed KB good because KB has a direct to consumer sales model and only allows very select few shops to be an approved installer. Whipple allows any shop to sell. I don't know which business model is right in the end. They probably both have their positives and negatives. But it's clear that KB took an awful beating in the Camaro community over their business model. And IAT games was the mental vehicle that vendors used to skew the preference toward Whipple. In some ways, I get it. It gets real hard to blame vendors for trying to push things that they can make money on. This is KB's cross to carry.

It is certainly fair to mention that KB came out with an improved intercooler brick in 2014. So did they have a heat problem in the past? Likely to some extent. On the other side, there are some real life dyno, HP, TQ, and 1/4 mile times that show they make a shit-ton of power in real life. An IAT number is just one part of the equation. Albeit an important one. But a car that lays down 525 hp and consistently runs at 140* IAT is still a better car than one that puts down 500 hp but reports 120* IAT.

Here's another one to think about. Did you know that Whipple fudges the IAT sensor settings in the tune to make it report a lower IAT reading than it actually is? Go over to HP Tuners forum and read about it if you like. Or read about it right here (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257126). When they first put out the Whipple kit for the Camaro, they left the IAT sensor in the air intake tube. Bad idea, but good for IAT bragging rights. When enough people called them out on that, they finally stuck the IAT sensor in the intake manifold after the intercooler but then put sensor settings into the tune that made it report a lower temp (like shown in the link above). Again, good for IAT bragging rights but not entirely truthful. I have to admit that I don't know if they ever finally came clean with true settings in their tune.

But the bottom line is that the Whipple is a great Blower. So is the Kenne Bell. They produce almost identical power and they are both fine blowers. And both will make more power than the TVS2300 series blowers given an equivalent engine build.

Hes 100 percent correct, while the older KB systems were a little hotter than they are today, they still crank out killer power.

As for the IAT sensor cal changes that Whipple did, its completely true, its not that I didnt believe CC about that, its that I wanted to see the extent of their tampering. Pretty clever, instead of changing the actual values, they changed the resistance scaling....LOL Nice work guys! If you can't beat them.....cheat a little!

Top one is whipple, bottom is stock.

[VASTREETRACER]

Nice write up. I agree both the KB and Whipple are good blowers. Even the 2300 is a good blower. Saw a 2300 with a cam make 680rwhp at 10# of boost.

[cc-rider]

Absolutely. 2300's are fine blowers. We are very lucky in the Camaro community to have so many quality and powerful aftermarket options to choose from.

[10aSSee D]

Like cc-rider said, KB got a real bad review when they first came out about being bad on iat's but have since fixed those issues. I was wanting a KB when I was in the market for FI but at that time KB was taking a lot of heat and I know many shops wouldn't even consider putting one on a new Camaro. So I went with the Whipple because I was wanting a twin screw blower. I'm vey happy with my Whipple but I would not be afraid of the KB since they have resolved their issues. KB makes a beautiful blower and they sound great when pushing some air. I'm very confident you will be very pleased if you purchase a KB.

[Unreal]

KB can be fine if your goals are reasonable. <700rwhp or so. The camaro packaging still leaves a much smaller intercooler than mustangs/etc. Tried for a long time, and a TON of money to get a 3.6LC to make 900+. Easy on a mustang. $4k later, and tons of time, custom parts, etc, best it would do is 880rwhp.

If you do like CC, and just want 500-650rwhp, go for it. I still think the other choices are better options for multiple reasons, but KBs are not bad, as long as you are not going for huge power.