Why you should stay catted

[MoranoRacing]

A very common assumption is Catalytic Converters rob power and shouldn't be used. Years ago in the 1970's this may have been very true but today that answer is false.

Today's Catalytic coverters lightweight, and efficient. They perform extremly well and do not take power away from your vehicle.

I was reading a great old article today in specialty automtovie magazine that said

"One point that many people fail to recongnize is that removal of a converter is a federal offense, so the fact that there is no local emissions inspection is irrelevant"

I feel that this may help clear up some concerns on weather or not Camaro owners should use high flow cats or not when upgrading to headers.

[Apex Motorsports]

I wonder if that has ever been prosecuted.

[ducq]

Removing just rear cats illegal?
Pros/cons?

[wbingham]

The very same EPA law making cat removal illegal also make "high-flo" cats illegal as well.

The EPA code prohibits replacing or even moving any part of the the factory emmisions control system. By the letter of this law simply adding long tube headers would modify the location the of the factory emmisions parts and therefore be illegal.

That pretty much leaves your with shorty headers and cat-back system as your only option if you want to stay legal.

To me, the way the current EPA Emissions law is written is a crock. If they want to regulate emissions numbers, that's fine, they can do that till their blue in the face. But trying to regulate what parts and how I install them is absolute BS as long as i meet all emissions numbers.

[ArkySS]

Are we saying there are no benefits to high flow cats?

[2010 SSRS]

legal, what is that, lol, LT's and Corsa Exhaust on mine and I love it.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by ArkySS

Are we saying there are no benefits to high flow cats?

Very little, the cats on the Camaro are almost like straight pipe. Dyno tests run before and after cat removal have shown basically no gain whatsoever.

EDIT: I goofed! The dyno runs I was referring to were with high flow cats and without. I thought it seemed odd.

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

I wonder if that has ever been prosecuted.

I'm not certain that the law is applied to individuals. The law for removing/altering emissions equipment is taken from the Clean Air Act, specifically section 203(a)3 which states

"for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser;"

So, the ultimate purchaser would be the consumer. It does say that "no person" may alter, etc. after the delivery to the ultimate purchaser. You could, if I read that correctly, be "any person" and "the ultimate purchaser". But I think the law is aimed primarily for businesses.

It goes on in the next paragraph to include manufacturers trying to make anything that is intended to defeat, bypass or render inoperable any part of the emission system. Just ask John Spina of Casper Electronics. Great guy, and the company makes a number of electronic parts which formerly included O2 post-cat sensor simulators (O2 sims). Big Brother whacked him for $74 grand, however, I am not aware that any person that ever purchased or installed the items were ever prosecuted. You can read the court record here. I understand the items can still be purchased in Canada, because they do not have this restriction.

As to the original intent of this thread, a lot of high flowing catalytic converters today are quite good, and don't steal much power. However, the use of cats and their positive/negative effect is relative to what your pushing through them.

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by wbingham

The very same EPA law making cat removal illegal also make "high-flo" cats illegal as well.

The EPA code prohibits replacing or even moving any part of the the factory emmisions control system. By the letter of this law simply adding long tube headers would modify the location the of the factory emmisions parts and therefore be illegal.

I don't think that is correct. The law does not bar replacement of parts with aftermarket products. It goes to intent; is the product you are replacing intended to defeat the emission process. If it flows better but is still effective, then I think it could be said that the item is legal.

From section 203(a)3B it is illegal:

"for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use;"

[caverman]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

Very little, the cats on the Camaro are almost like straight pipe. Dyno tests run before and after cat removal have shown basically no gain whatsoever.

Are you sure???? I would like to see a thread on that and it would have to come from a reputable place like Janetty or ADM for me to believe.

I think in the past Janetty did a test where he ran a set of LTs with and without HF cats that didn't show much of a difference. That however is different than testing the factory cats against aftermarket HF cats.

On the flip side ADM claims to gain 18 rwhp from the removal of the cats by using their offroad mid-pipes. SOLO as well is showing similar gains by using their HF cats over the factory cats.

I'm not trying to throw you under the bus or call you a liar or anything but I haven't seen any tests showing that replacing the factory cats with HF cats don't show any increase.

However, I would like to see dynos from independant people to see if HF cats or no cats are actually making the numbers claimed by the Mfg.

[caverman]

I was told my muffler guy that removing or replacing working Cats is illegal but replacing damaged or non-functioning cats is not.

That's why I had my rear ones removed. They got damaged by me running over something......I think???

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by wbingham

The very same EPA law making cat removal illegal also make "high-flo" cats illegal as well.

The EPA code prohibits replacing or even moving any part of the the factory emmisions control system. By the letter of this law simply adding long tube headers would modify the location the of the factory emmisions parts and therefore be illegal.

That pretty much leaves your with shorty headers and cat-back system as your only option if you want to stay legal.

To me, the way the current EPA Emissions law is written is a crock. If they want to regulate emissions numbers, that's fine, they can do that till their blue in the face. But trying to regulate what parts and how I install them is absolute BS as long as i meet all emissions numbers.

I totally agree

[R1CH]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

Very little, the cats on the Camaro are almost like straight pipe. Dyno tests run before and after cat removal have shown basically no gain whatsoever.

[Huck1974]

I have no problems with running cats. I have no problems with the power gain or lack of.
I have a problem with my supercharged vettes cats. 8000 miles and one of the cats came apart inside. That equals nowhere for the exhaust to go and a blown head gasket. It could have been worse. I had to tear down a basically new vette because of cats.