06-12-2011, 06:43 PM | #351 |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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I'd like the DI. If we can get it in a 5Gen, however the LS7 is ready now. I just want a 5Gen Z28!
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06-12-2011, 11:09 PM | #352 |
Drives: GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Camaro Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Winter Springs FL
Posts: 1,657
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06-13-2011, 11:34 AM | #353 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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The only down side to DI is the lack of tuning software. Bosch has it locked down tight. The leads to my question.
If the Z28 comes with DI will it help or hurt sales? |
06-13-2011, 11:50 AM | #354 | |
Searching for the truth
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Quote:
I have brought this up many times, and for the most part still believe its a very likely option. A base line LS7 Z28 would most likely cost us around 45-48 msrp, but a GenV V8 could have us at 38-40 msrp. Now this is if the SS also gets the GenV V8 with a different tune. When the launch of the GenV V8 comes along I see 4 different versions released at one time, a replacement for the LS9 (also the LSA both with same internals this time just a different Supercharger), a hand built replacement for the LS7, a replacement for the LS3 for truck and SS duty, and another for the Z28 and Corvette GS.
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2013 1LE 1SS RS TPW 4/29
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06-13-2011, 11:52 AM | #355 |
Drives: 2010 Camaro LS Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,911
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yes the V6 people are slowing working out the tunning. so hopefully what they are learning can be applied in this situation.
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2010 Summit White Camaro LS / M6 MRT V2.0 |
06-13-2011, 01:47 PM | #356 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
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Now that the ZL1 will be available with an Automatic, the differentiation for the Zee28 is suddenly clearer...STICK ONLY...as one would expect for an enthusiast-centered, track-likely canyon carver. I'm not saying this makes the ZL1 any less of a "halo", and it surely adds to its potential sales. But the Zee, for me, is now in a different Class...just as the GT500 (600?) is to the BOSS.
With this newfound "focus" for the Zee, the debate concerning (LT1, is it?)Gen-5 SBC vs. LS7 (the only REAL alternatives?!) is one of "intent" and "timing" and "viability". And the predication for this debate, or Business Case (call it what you will), would center around WHEN... When is it conceiveable for GM to foist this much-needed and -anticipated version? How quickly can the Team ready, for Production, the Zee? Or, rather, how quickly DO THEY WARRANT its necessity, at whatever risk they assign its potential sales against the ZL1's numbers? If there is concern about folks "settling" for a Zee at the expense of the ZL1, it would frankly put the ENTIRE Program at risk. Why? 'Cause the clock is ticking on the Gen-5 platform. 'Cause the costs incurred for the Gen-5 Camaro Zee Program have to be amortized over "X" units, and the sooner the Program launches, the easier the costs will be to recover, and true profit$ will be realized, and the lower the end MSRP is likely to be and, therefore, the ultimate sales success for the Program... That scenario, in and of itself, means the Gen-5 engine is likely at best a '14-MY intro (somewhere early-'13 calendar year or so). Is that long enough to recoup? Me thinks NOT...not with Alfie due shortly thereafter, by MY '15... Which brings us four-square back to our good ol' friend, the LS7...available NOW...certifiable/validatable NOW...or anytime the Team deems "appropriate". Complete with ZL1 driveline components which are undergoing this process as we speak. Production is now slated to commence 1st 1/4 '12 as MY '12s, for the ZL1: 1) How many of those potential folks would really rally 'round a Zee, instead? At $10K less for admittedly less content, but no less road course excitement, and just about as many grins on the daily commute? 2) Or, would our Zee-lusting brothers and sisters simply avoid a ZL1, anyway, but be willing to open a payment account for the Zee, instead? That was Ford's conundrum, and we know how that turned out. Will GM do something for US? Stay tuned... EDIT: An historical "been there-done that" occurs to me... Fred Gibb, with Dick Harrell, "blindly" ordered the first 50 Gen-One ZL1s, with Vince Piggins' assurances that the "price would be right"...and then the "beancounters" (not for the first time, and certainly not for the last...) made Vince, and Gibb, and 19 other orderers PAY...150% more for the COPO 9560 Package than the basic Camaro chassis retailed for. If you take a Base LS Camaro, and factor in 150%...BANG ON what a loaded ZL1 will be, again. Maybe THAT'S why the late name change... As to the likelihood of a Zee...the clock IS ticking... Last edited by LOWDOWN; 06-13-2011 at 02:06 PM. |
06-13-2011, 02:20 PM | #357 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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You are right, the clock is ticking.
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06-13-2011, 03:12 PM | #358 |
Camaro SS Lover
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black IOM Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario (Canada)
Posts: 2,863
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I'm less concerned with weight than I am with power. Case and point Mustangs are too light to stick to the pavement with the power they have.
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2010 Camaro SS, P1SC SuperCharged Livernois LSX429ci., 1 7/8" LT Headers, full 3" MBRP exhaust, SPI built/tuned, a total
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06-13-2011, 03:27 PM | #359 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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It isn't so much that the Mustang is light, it is the solid rear with a three arm setup. My company has done extensive work on both. We have the Mustang and Camaro running in virtually a dead heat. I say virtually because on the road course the Camaro was 3 tenths of a second faster. Keep in mind that the Mustang out brakes and out accelerated the Camaro. The Camaro had dyno number of 568 RWHP and the Mustang only 449. Weight is important, but the heavier Camaro IRS allowed the Camaro to carry more speed into and out of the turns.
You can read about both here. http://www.peddersusa.com/news/1/article21 The picture is at speed and I am 'hiding' in the mustang. |
06-13-2011, 03:38 PM | #360 | |
Moderator.ca
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Quote:
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Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________ Originally Posted by FbodFather My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors...... ........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!__________________ Camaro Fest sub-forum |
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06-13-2011, 03:45 PM | #361 | |
Camaro SS Lover
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Black IOM Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario (Canada)
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Quote:
__________________
2010 Camaro SS, P1SC SuperCharged Livernois LSX429ci., 1 7/8" LT Headers, full 3" MBRP exhaust, SPI built/tuned, a total
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06-13-2011, 03:46 PM | #362 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
Our track experience is why I had asked for a number of things in my design for the Z28. Here is a short list. Exhaust manifolds coated inside and out No sound insulation above the plenum No hood blanket Ambient Air Induction Heat extractors in the hood Oil cooler PS cooler A cool LS series engine is a happy LS series engine |
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06-13-2011, 03:52 PM | #363 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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Quote:
One of the mistakes I made in the setup of our Camaro was running an aftermarket hood. This time I want a factory hood with heat extractors. It will easily be 15 pounds lighter or more. Another 20 or 30 pounds of sound deadening out of the Z28. Another few pounds with the Brembo two piece rotors. Titanium exhaust. We are getting really close to where I would like to be. The N/A LS7. How soon can they build it? |
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06-13-2011, 04:13 PM | #364 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
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"Tomorrow"...we're just not quite sure how many "grains of sand" are in the "GM Hourglass"...
Again, we see a reappearance of the "LS7 is heavy" urban legend... Converted to wet-sump, as per crash-testing (no tank) AND weight avoidance, the LS3 in any guise and the LS7 are within a handful of pounds, dressed but "naked" as requested by Pete. With judicious application (or rather lack of) "stuff 'n doodads", a 1SS (with LS interior) + LS7 + HD (ZL1-derived) Driveline - MR +FE4 + ZL1 Wheels/Tires/Exhaust = <1SS Curb Weight. And the LS7's life expectancy is equivalent, roughly, to the Gen-5 Camaro. Here's a recipe to ensure that... At that weight, with cat-like reflexes, the arrow missing from the Camaro quiver...isn't...at a premium well below a ZL1, but equally above a Base 2SS... |
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700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro |
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