Cat back vs. Axle back ?? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

calflan · 08-01-2009, 09:12 AM

A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks.

1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ?

2 - I believe these cars have a resonator or some other 'cannister' after the converter before the muffler, don't they ?

3 - If so, I assume the catback system removes that and is just a straight shot from the converter to the new muffler or resonator installed ?

I know an axle back system is basically changing out the muffler with a different model muffler or resonator and that's about it.

4 - Catback decreases back pressure more than axle back ???

Is a tune required for a catback and / or axle back ? I thought the axle back definitley not required, but not sure. Am I right on this ?

franknbeans · 08-01-2009, 10:39 AM

A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks.

1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ?
On AVERAGE Catbacks are giving 15-18hp and axle about 6-8hp. (the numbers i've seen on the board)

2 - I believe these cars have a resonator or some other 'cannister' after the converter before the muffler, don't they ?
Yes they do.

3 - If so, I assume the catback system removes that and is just a straight shot from the converter to the new muffler or resonator installed ?
Assumptions correct.

I know an axle back system is basically changing out the muffler with a different model muffler or resonator and that's about it.

4 - Catback decreases back pressure more than axle back ???
Yes, most catback exhaust are larger pipes also.

Is a tune required for a catback and / or axle back ? I thought the axle back definitley not required, but not sure. Am I right on this ?
No tune is required for any exhaust upgrade. BUT a tune will give you better HP numbers with or with out a exhaust upgrade. The downfall is warranty issues.

BigBOSS · 08-01-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franknbeans

2 - I believe these cars have a resonator or some other 'cannister' after the converter before the muffler, don't they ?
Yes they do.

What exactly is the canister, do you know?

ZZcamaro · 08-01-2009, 11:21 AM

It is a resonator....
The LS3 has 4 of them!!!
The L99 has 2 and a huge one!!!

I have not been under a V6 yet.

calflan · 08-01-2009, 11:48 AM

I was told by my dealer all but headers will not void the warranty. they don't mhave concerns about catback or axle back, but headers may change backpressure, flow, temps, etc. enough that they claim not to have sufficient background on this engine / car installation to say headers are O.K. for a V6 Camaro.

Thanks a bunch for the answers.

tcamp · 08-02-2009, 09:01 PM

[QUOTE=franknbeans;746685]A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks.

1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ?
On AVERAGE Catbacks are giving 15-18hp and axle about 6-8hp. (the numbers i've seen on the board)

Are you sure? I contacted Borla and a few other manufacturers about their exhaust systems and Borla specifically told me there is only a 3 HP difference between cat back and axle back. Cat back is 20 rwhp and axle back is 17. Apparently the stock system and H pipe isn't too bad.

I'm sure the numbers are slightly different with other exhaust manufacturers but I can't imagine them being too far off.

calflan · 08-03-2009, 08:52 AM

I would assume with a H pipe, the HP difference would be substantial. The H pipe purges the 2 sets and therefore ensures less packpressure. An Axle back decreases pressure only at the last component / resonator / muffler.

tcamp · 08-03-2009, 11:40 AM

I know...That is what everyone says, and it makes sense. For some reason on these cars the X pipe isn't adding more than 3 horsepower though. If you look around on these forums a bit those numbers are held up by other members experiences as well.

calflan · 08-05-2009, 02:51 PM

There is no H Pipe setup on the V6.

Question 1 - Is a Catback really worth the expense vs. an Axle back ??? There is a difefrence of about $400. I am told on the newer cars if you don't do headers, a cat back is not worth the expense vs. the performance or mileage gain.

Question 2 - What would be the difference between installing a full catback system and just removing the stock resonator and fabricating an X Pipe, then installing an axle back system ? ... and again, is this worth pursuing ?

Thanks guys

LPFSTheFett · 08-05-2009, 03:09 PM

Someone asked the question, how these cars are gaining 20rwhp from a cat back exhaust when the stock mufflers are straight pipes already? (they even showed a picture of the muffler cut, showing the straight pipe)

I would be curious to see anybody that has done a before and after dyno on a cat back only upgrade.

scrming · 08-05-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calflan

There is no H Pipe setup on the V6.

Question 1 - Is a Catback really worth the expense vs. an Axle back ??? There is a difefrence of about $400. I am told on the newer cars if you don't do headers, a cat back is not worth the expense vs. the performance or mileage gain.

Question 2 - What would be the difference between installing a full catback system and just removing the stock resonator and fabricating an X Pipe, then installing an axle back system ? ... and again, is this worth pursuing ?

Thanks guys

hmmmm... my car DEFINITELY had an H pipe! I didn't think to take picture of it and it's basically impossible to see unless it's on the hoist but it was an H... Next time I have it in the shop I'll snap a picture....

I would love to see these system independently dyno tested... we cut out the stock mufflers and replaced them with resonators... we seen a bit of a gain in the mid-range but basically nothing at peak...

Ok... I think perhaps were not talking about the stock setup.... oops... sorry!

scrming · 08-05-2009, 06:11 PM

Ok... so I am confused on who thinks what... stock is x or h or what...

so, i crawled under the car and did the best I could... here's the stock H pipe... almost can make out the part number! LOL

calflan · 08-05-2009, 08:01 PM

Damn scrming, I stand corrected !
I put mine up on ramps for an oil change the other day and although I did'nt get directly under the pipes, it appeared from the side view that the only thing that looked close was a welded barcket holding the pipes together midway.

O.K., now, if there is an H Pipe, why would a Cat Back system do much more than a axle back, except for the fact that removing the resonator under the chasis would be gone - and understood that would remove some back poressure, but how much back pressure does it build. It's a through resonator.

I'm leaning more and more toward the axle back. Really can't see enough reason to spend the difference.

08-01-2009, 09:12 AM	#1
calflan Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heath, Tx. Posts: 499	Cat back vs. Axle back ?? A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks. 1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ? 2 - I believe these cars have a resonator or some other 'cannister' after the converter before the muffler, don't they ? 3 - If so, I assume the catback system removes that and is just a straight shot from the converter to the new muffler or resonator installed ? I know an axle back system is basically changing out the muffler with a different model muffler or resonator and that's about it. 4 - Catback decreases back pressure more than axle back ??? Is a tune required for a catback and / or axle back ? I thought the axle back definitley not required, but not sure. Am I right on this ? __________________ 1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I]

08-01-2009, 10:39 AM	#2
franknbeans Whipped Drives: 2010 CAMARO Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pittsburgh-ish - PA Posts: 4,216 View My Garage	A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks. 1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ? On AVERAGE Catbacks are giving 15-18hp and axle about 6-8hp. (the numbers i've seen on the board) 2 - I believe these cars have a resonator or some other 'cannister' after the converter before the muffler, don't they ? Yes they do. 3 - If so, I assume the catback system removes that and is just a straight shot from the converter to the new muffler or resonator installed ? Assumptions correct. I know an axle back system is basically changing out the muffler with a different model muffler or resonator and that's about it. 4 - Catback decreases back pressure more than axle back ??? Yes, most catback exhaust are larger pipes also. Is a tune required for a catback and / or axle back ? I thought the axle back definitley not required, but not sure. Am I right on this ? No tune is required for any exhaust upgrade. BUT a tune will give you better HP numbers with or with out a exhaust upgrade. The downfall is warranty issues. __________________ Car of the week 7/7/14

08-01-2009, 11:48 AM	#5
calflan Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heath, Tx. Posts: 499	I was told by my dealer all but headers will not void the warranty. they don't mhave concerns about catback or axle back, but headers may change backpressure, flow, temps, etc. enough that they claim not to have sufficient background on this engine / car installation to say headers are O.K. for a V6 Camaro. Thanks a bunch for the answers. __________________ 1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I]

08-03-2009, 08:52 AM	#7
calflan Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heath, Tx. Posts: 499	I would assume with a H pipe, the HP difference would be substantial. The H pipe purges the 2 sets and therefore ensures less packpressure. An Axle back decreases pressure only at the last component / resonator / muffler. __________________ 1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I]

08-05-2009, 02:51 PM	#9
calflan Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heath, Tx. Posts: 499	There is no H Pipe setup on the V6. Question 1 - Is a Catback really worth the expense vs. an Axle back ??? There is a difefrence of about $400. I am told on the newer cars if you don't do headers, a cat back is not worth the expense vs. the performance or mileage gain. Question 2 - What would be the difference between installing a full catback system and just removing the stock resonator and fabricating an X Pipe, then installing an axle back system ? ... and again, is this worth pursuing ? Thanks guys __________________ 1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I] Last edited by calflan; 08-05-2009 at 03:08 PM.

08-01-2009, 11:21 AM	#4
ZZcamaro Drives: 2SS w/ ZZ427 Package!! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 2,700	It is a resonator.... The LS3 has 4 of them!!! The L99 has 2 and a huge one!!! I have not been under a V6 yet.

08-02-2009, 09:01 PM	#6
tcamp Drives: 2010 1LT RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 98	[QUOTE=franknbeans;746685]A few questions if anyone could help out, thanks. 1 - What is the difference between a Catback exhaust system and an axle back - performance wise ? On AVERAGE Catbacks are giving 15-18hp and axle about 6-8hp. (the numbers i've seen on the board) Are you sure? I contacted Borla and a few other manufacturers about their exhaust systems and Borla specifically told me there is only a 3 HP difference between cat back and axle back. Cat back is 20 rwhp and axle back is 17. Apparently the stock system and H pipe isn't too bad. I'm sure the numbers are slightly different with other exhaust manufacturers but I can't imagine them being too far off.

08-03-2009, 11:40 AM	#8
tcamp Drives: 2010 1LT RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 98	I know...That is what everyone says, and it makes sense. For some reason on these cars the X pipe isn't adding more than 3 horsepower though. If you look around on these forums a bit those numbers are held up by other members experiences as well.

08-05-2009, 03:09 PM	#10
LPFSTheFett Drives: 2010 2SS Camaro Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Columbus OH Posts: 60	Someone asked the question, how these cars are gaining 20rwhp from a cat back exhaust when the stock mufflers are straight pipes already? (they even showed a picture of the muffler cut, showing the straight pipe) I would be curious to see anybody that has done a before and after dyno on a cat back only upgrade.

08-05-2009, 06:11 PM	#12
scrming Red Brick of Vengeance! Drives: 12 Second Brick Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: at my pulpit Posts: 7,745	Ok... so I am confused on who thinks what... stock is x or h or what... so, i crawled under the car and did the best I could... here's the stock H pipe... almost can make out the part number! LOL __________________ 2011 Ford Flex EcoBoost Limited - 12.727 @ 109.790 MPH

08-05-2009, 08:01 PM	#13
calflan Drives: 1LT; IBM; 6 Spd Manual Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heath, Tx. Posts: 499	Damn scrming, I stand corrected ! I put mine up on ramps for an oil change the other day and although I did'nt get directly under the pipes, it appeared from the side view that the only thing that looked close was a welded barcket holding the pipes together midway. O.K., now, if there is an H Pipe, why would a Cat Back system do much more than a axle back, except for the fact that removing the resonator under the chasis would be gone - and understood that would remove some back poressure, but how much back pressure does it build. It's a through resonator. I'm leaning more and more toward the axle back. Really can't see enough reason to spend the difference. __________________ 1LT; Airaid CAI; Flowmaster American Thunder Axelback; Int Floor Lts; RS Spoiler; Radio Controls; Sequential tail lights; Oil Catch Can; VMAX Throttle Body; MACE plenum spacer; Mace manifold insulator[/I]

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
GMPP axle back?	SGOS252382	Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons	12	02-27-2010 06:38 AM
Cat back or axle back?	norcalwheelman	Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons	2	07-22-2009 08:15 AM
Priority #1 and #2 People....Get some money back!	fastfret7	Camaro Price \| Ordering \| Tracking \| Dealers Discussions	24	11-14-2008 01:53 PM
The 2010 Camaro, back then and now...	bolteon593	Camaro Photos \| Spyshots \| Video \| Media Gallery	15	06-25-2008 05:36 PM
Cat pulls a fast one on firefighters	KILLER74Z28	Off-topic Discussions	10	02-16-2008 12:00 PM