Camaro Coilover Comparison Facts

[PfadtRacing]

As the industry leader in Camaro suspension performance, a lot of people compare themselves to Pfadt, and rightfully so. When you talk to Pfadt, you talk to automotive engineers, not salesmen on the internet. Information from Pfadt comes straight from the horse’s mouth; the posts that are made from Pfadt are from the actual educated automotive engineers that design the parts. It is important to consider this fact when analyzing information from company salesmen. When manufacturers make an unsolicited attempt to compare themselves to us, we are thrilled because it demonstrates that Pfadt stands as the benchmark. With that said, we have received many inquiries from forum members, confused as to why other manufacturers use this as their sole marketing approach, as opposed to results on a track. So if you were ever confused about engineering facts on a Pfadt coilover suspension, read below to get the info straight from Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE International) members, not salesmen. We race and win on what we engineer for your Camaro.

1. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers are properly engineered to provide maximum adjustment to ride height. Pfadt coilovers adjust the ride height by raising and lowering the spring perch for a reason: they were engineered specifically for the Camaro suspension travel requirements, not adapted from a "similar" platform. Some coilovers may rely on adaptations of existing parts and rely on screwing the body into the lower mount – like a one-size-fits-all solution. Pfadt coil overs are properly engineered specifically for the Camaro and as a result have full and proper suspension travel engineered into them. In the case of the Camaro, relying on a threaded body to adjust ride height is a symptom of inadequate engineering resulting in added weight, complexity, and the potential for noise. As a result of our engineering, Pfadt dampers are specific to the Camaro platform (not off the shelf) and the ride quality is unparalleled.


2. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers address the entire mounting system and do not rely on OEM mounts. OEM mounts were designed for a strut, not a coilover. Using the OEM mounts with a coilover, while inexpensive, and an easy solution, is not ideal for any type of performance application. At Pfadt, we aren't in business to give you "good enough." Pfadt replaces the rear mount on the coilover to solve an inherent issue in the non-linear path of the rear shock and spring - in other words, the factory mounts put an undesirable bending moment in the shaft. Use of the rear OEM mount for the spring and shock orientation does not address the inherent binding problem. In a performance application, the cornering loads are increased and only exponentially increases the problem. So what are you gaining? What is the advantage of copying the same design, or adapting it from a "similar" platform? Pfadt has done the engineering necessary to make sure the upper mount in the front and rear can EXCEED the design load requirements of our suspension. Ask anyone who refutes this fact to prove it with any analysis data. Camaro coilovers that use the OEM mounting points in the rear are defaulting to an inferior solution requiring minimal engineering.

3. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers are inverted to reduce unsprung mass and offer the extreme advantage of an enclosed shaft assembly on the front which is completely protected from dirt and debris. Let us be clear: the front shafts on Pfadt Camaro coil overs are completely protected from the elements and will see not one spec of dirt, debris, salt or water. Our system is far superior to any other option and absolutely bullet proof for long term use on the street or the track. The most important question regarding damper longevity is the quality and reliability of the materials and manufacturing. Pfadt Race Engineering uses manufacturing in the United States and Germany for the ultimate in superior construction. Pfadt coilovers offer superior engineering and require no seal maintenance, no gas pressure maintenance, no lubrication maintenance all while offering the performance advantages of an inverted design. If someone is telling you otherwise, it is simply because they can not find anything wrong with the superior design of an inverted shock.

4. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have options for adjusting Camber and Caster. Pfadt has the only true solution for adjusting caster and camber quickly, safely, and efficiently with our optional upper mounting plates. Products that use a clevis in an attempt to achieve increased negative camber put more stress on the strut geometry, creating the high potential for material fatigue. While extending the clevis is inexpensive and rudimentary it is not an engineered system solution.

5. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers allow you to change spring rates. As we are an engineering company, as well as a racing company, we know a properly designed coilover allows you to use flat-ground, interchangeable springs that are readily available from any spring manufacturer. If you buy something else, you are stuck with what they ship you, and you are gaining nothing over the factory design. If you are paying for a suspension upgrade, shouldn’t it have at the bare minimum a spring upgrade?

6. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have corrosion resistance coatings that last a lifetime. Using Asian suppliers with cheap manufacturing techniques allow for them to cut corners in both material choice, and material coating. Pfadt should know, we have experienced poor coatings from suppliers and long ago engineered a better solution. With out a proper coating, you will end up with rusty spring perch threads, rendering your “adjustable” coilovers, non-adjustable after a short while. Our coilovers, and all parts for that matter have experienced the harshest environments conceivable, and have held up to the test.

7. Check the facts when researching the company you want to buy coilovers from. Pfadt Race Engineering can offer the following pedigree:

- A Utah company whose Camaro coilovers are manufactured in the United States and Germany. Aside from coilovers our entire Camaro product line is manufactured in the United States. Everyone is familiar with the quality difference between USA components and Asian counterparts.
- Professional backgrounds include tenure at General Motors, Chrysler, and Pratt & Miller Engineering (GM Factory Corvette Racing)
- Education backgrounds include degrees from The Rochester Institute of Technology, The University of Utah, Philadelphia University, Penn State University, and The University of Michigan.
- We employ Society of Automotive Engineers professionals, just like select engineers from the Big Three.
- Our company competes in national races to prove our products in multiple markets.
- We are backed by GM Factory Racing driver Johnny O'Connell, on both 2010 Chevrolet Camaro and C5/C6 Chevrolet Corvette products.


The only Camaro race cars that are using commercially available coilovers from a manufacturer are using Pfadt Race Engineering coilovers due to their superior design. This fact does not sit easy with our competition, as they have no leg to stand on when it comes to professional performance. When we compete, we win. We have already been put up against all suspensions on equal cars for the first time at the Camaro5 Fest this past April. And much to our delight, we took victory in both competitions. Only Camaros competed, only Pfadt suspension took 1st place. This is a fact.

The Pfadt coilovers are built to suit street customers as well as racing customers. Having independent compression and rebound adjustment is great aspect to have, if done right, built right, with the correct materials, and adjusted properly, and not just used for a gimmick. There is a LOT more that goes into damper engineering than piston size. We build dampers in house, how many other people on Camaro5 can say that? Do you want us to dyno a coilover and give you the results? We can. Ask others for that info any you will get a confused look. We know how to properly engineer shim stacks to affect low and high speed compression and rebound characteristics. Simply throwing out a piston size makes no more sense in damper terminology than it does in engine building. Can you tell how "smooth" the power will come on by knowing the piston size in your engine? That is a sign that the person you are talking to is merely throwing out "industry buzz words" to confuse and distract the consumer from the inferior quality of their own products.

These are all facts you can count on, from a real American company that does not spin gimmicks, use cheap suppliers or make false claims to compete with other manufacturers. Click the picture below to expand on the features of Pfadt Camaro coilovers and see for yourself.

[Apex Motorsports]

Many the points made above contributed to Apex Motorsports selecting Pfadt Race Engineering over others as our premium suspension line. Time and again the products and people from Pfadt have validated our decision.

[edneyens]

Pfadt, this claim bothers me:

4. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have options for adjusting Camber and Caster. Pfadt has the only true solution for adjusting caster and camber quickly, safely, and efficiently with our optional upper mounting plates. Products that use a clevis in an attempt to achieve increased negative camber put more stress on the strut geometry, creating the high potential for material fatigue. While extending the clevis is inexpensive and rudimentary it is not an engineered system solution.

I would like to see more information - your comment inferring competition's additional 10 mm off-set on the clevis is a big problem.
I am hoping this claim is a bit exaggerated; it seems to me if this is an issue then selection of wheel offset is something to be concerned about.
First, would you agree that the forces placed on the strut by clevis offset would be similar to that provided by wheel offset? If not, why not?
If it has similar effects, what amount of total offset will cause enough of a problem to risk material fatigue to the strut (wheel & clevis or wheel alone as a function of product I purchased)?
You got my attention and concern.
PS: I do have your camber kit, and feel it is a great product.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by edneyens

Pfadt, this claim bothers me:

4. High end purpose built Camaro coilovers have options for adjusting Camber and Caster. Pfadt has the only true solution for adjusting caster and camber quickly, safely, and efficiently with our optional upper mounting plates. Products that use a clevis in an attempt to achieve increased negative camber put more stress on the strut geometry, creating the high potential for material fatigue. While extending the clevis is inexpensive and rudimentary it is not an engineered system solution.

I would like to see more information - your comment inferring competition's additional 10 mm off-set on the clevis is a big problem.
I am hoping this claim is a bit exaggerated; it seems to me if this is an issue then selection of wheel offset is something to be concerned about.
First, would you agree that the forces placed on the strut by clevis offset would be similar to that provided by wheel offset? If not, why not?
If it has similar effects, what amount of total offset will cause enough of a problem to risk material fatigue to the strut (wheel & clevis or wheel alone as a function of product I purchased)?
You got my attention and concern.
PS: I do have your camber kit, and feel it is a great product.

Yes, I would agree that they would be "similar" in terms of moment. Regarding the specific value of total offset that will cause premature material fatigue, that is going to be dependent on material choice (again..suppliers come into play) and normal forces seen during typical duty.

When we put wheel spacers on a SLA suspension such as our Corvette Race Car, we know the ramifications of adding offset, and can account for it with much better bearings, ball joints etc. Adding this into a design that is not intended for it, with out taking the proper precautions, is all we are really trying to express. Some may think nothing of it, just like they may think nothing of adding a 1" wheel spacer. The point is, why take the risk on an offset clevis, when you can achieve a more proper way of Camber adjustment, with the added benefit of Caster Adjustment, and you will not have to worry about adding offset to your wheels in the future.

Thank you for the comments on our Camber/Caster kit!

[IPS Brandon]

I think the quote is

"you are the mark" -

We have been with Pfadt for nearly four years now, from corvettes to the camaro lineup now being offered!

Collaborating with them has been very successful for us as we have now set records in the corvette market, holding the highest trap speed street driven C6Z in the quarter mile of 168 mph, and then C6 E.T. record of 8.68 ( video here ), and soon to hold the IRS corvette record as well once we actually lean on the car a bit (it has only made about 15 passes this year to achieve this goals).

Their products are all developed from the ground up as mentioned and nothing just rushed to market to earn a quick dime, which is the most saddening part of this industry currently...Watching other companies rush products to market that are poorly engineered and constantly revised to adjust the defects that come about often. This just doesn't happen with pfadt. Oh and their products are MADE IN THE USA no Asian alloys used in these pieces!

Regards

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by IPS Brandon

I think the quote is

"you are the mark" -




Regards

[Team STILLEN]

Out of all of the systems we have installed and rode/raced in, these are by far the most versatile. From our average street customers to all out track cars, the ability to change to almost ANY spring rates without buying custom springs and the Pfadt camber plates have made my life as a crew cheif MUCH simpler! Plus the pricing for the quality you are getting is an easy sell to our street customers.

[My 5th]

Coke or Pepsi? Hmmmm....

[usmcjlp]

This thread seems like it should be in the vendor section. It really seems like you're competitor bashing. I find it interesting this comes out after the threads about bad springs on your coilovers. I mean you are basically putting out your approach to suspension design as gospel and everyone else is taking shortcuts.

[TCao]

More likely, it's a response to this:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101859
IMHO, it's great to have so many choices in suspension upgrades within the first production year for the Camaro. Suspension design is a series of design trade-offs of performance and production cost requirements. Every manufacturer ranks these requirements in different priorities in coming up with their design. As a consumer, I'd try to collect and sort out engineering facts from marketing hype in choosing an aftermarket suspension system that most closely matches my own list of upgrade priorities (adjustability, ease of installation, durability, cost, ...).

Originally Posted by usmcjlp

This thread seems like it should be in the vendor section. It really seems like you're competitor bashing. I find it interesting this comes out after the threads about bad springs on your coilovers. I mean you are basically putting out your approach to suspension design as gospel and everyone else is taking shortcuts.

[usmcjlp]

TCao,

Got it, hadn't seen that. You make a good point.

[kingbambino22]

Why don't you just put out a challenge out to all suspension companies and do real life testing with Camaros with modify suspension only. I hear these claims all the time about who is better or not. I like everyones product but I chose Pedders. I would put my car up for use just to see the outcome. Only mod is a cai and I still have the stock one. She is untuned so it will be back stock. But, I think the challenge should be handling, ride comfort, adjustable, skidpad, etc.. Tuning of suspension is allowed but no camber plates. The Camaro didnt come with them. Just bolt-on parts, bushings, coliovers, sways, etc. Then tell the TRUTH on what you like and dislike in comparison. Hopefully all companies just keep making good parts for the 5TH gen so we can outrun all imports! I live in AZ so let me know. I'll represent on Pedders behalf if they allow it.

[thekid96]

No camber plates because the Camaro didn't come with them? Not sure I understand your logic since the Camaro didn't come with aftermarket bushings, coil overs or bigger sways either.

Originally Posted by kingbambino22

Why don't you just put out a challenge out to all suspension companies and do real life testing with Camaros with modify suspension only. I hear these claims all the time about who is better or not. I like everyones product but I chose Pedders. I would put my car up for use just to see the outcome. Only mod is a cai and I still have the stock one. She is untuned so it will be back stock. But, I think the challenge should be handling, ride comfort, adjustable, skidpad, etc.. Tuning of suspension is allowed but no camber plates. The Camaro didnt come with them. Just bolt-on parts, bushings, coliovers, sways, etc. Then tell the TRUTH on what you like and dislike in comparison. Hopefully all companies just keep making good parts for the 5TH gen so we can outrun all imports! I live in AZ so let me know. I'll represent on Pedders behalf if they allow it.

[kingbambino22]

I really dont care what is used but does all the companies make camber plates or strut tower braces? No. Plus everything suspension wise that comes off is being replace with a similar style part just aftermarket. Settle it on the track with REAL RESULTS.