12-23-2013, 01:30 AM | #1 |
Drives: 2010 Aqua Blue Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2013
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 657
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shorties with twin turbos?
after making polls and saying i didnt know which super charger i wanted i decided that i want twin turbos. (andymon is convincing me to get the turbos) only down part is i have to get rid of my LT headers im deffinetly going to miss them but ill like the twin turbos more for sure. but i was wondering if shorty headers would work with turbos, also what do you guys think about the sound of shorties? ive never heard them in person.
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12-23-2013, 07:14 AM | #2 |
Untamed Performance EPT
Drives: 2011 2SS Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: El Paso
Posts: 372
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All the research I've read leads towards stock manifolds. They retain heat better than shorties, which will keep those high temps from reaching your turbos.
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Borla LT Headers and Borla Cat Back ATAK 9in. diff with 4.11's, DSS Axles, and Alum Shaft Hurst Short-Shifter; Ideal Garage Master Cylinder H-E Street Slayer Twin Billet Clutch BMR: Adjustable; Trailing Arms, Toe Rods, Extreme Sway Bar. BMR Subframe Bushings. Strange Rear Coilovers and mounts Tuned by Rhino79 |
12-23-2013, 07:28 AM | #3 |
Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 5,712
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ARH work but you are going to hear the turbos over any "header" noise. Don't worry, turbos sound glorious and you will love it. Stock manifolds are fine for 1200+rwhp. Only reason to run shorties is to clear 6 bolt heads or if you like ARH enough to want to give them money. Otherwise factory manifolds are good.
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Nick
Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp |
12-23-2013, 12:49 PM | #4 |
Boosted Moderator
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Sell the headers and like the others have said, you can use shorties or the stock manifolds... The shorties will flow better than stock manifolds....
Until you get into high boost levels (greater than 12 lbs) the stock manifolds are fine... Headers are designed to scavenge exhaust by one pulse creating a vacumn to help pull the next pulse etc... Turbo "manifolds" are just a device to get the exhaust to the turbos... The shorty "headers" will work better than stock manifolds, but like before, until you exceed 12 or so lbs of boost, stock manifolds are fine... I was creating too much back pressure with the stock manifolds but I'm running as much as 24 lbs of boost to this point, soon to be around 30 lbs of boost... We have custom turbo "manifolds" made for the car... Anything that will flow more air will allow for more power, and the stock manifolds do neck down quite a bit inside... One pic is my original exhaust manifold, and the other is my new custom Turbo manifolds... As you can see on the original manifold, there was a ton of backpressure and lots of associated heat... It was costing me power... at 18 lbs of boost, so we built the custom manifolds... We now have substantially less back pressure, and lots more available boost... We are tuned for 24 lbs with the right fuel in the tank but are going to 30 lbs before long... One more thing to consider, is that if you are going to use Shorties, make sure they are substantial enough to support the turbos... With all the associated heat and weight of the turbos, you dont want them sagging and creating other problems...
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If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you. “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough... |
12-23-2013, 01:47 PM | #5 |
Drives: 2010 Aqua Blue Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2013
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 657
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the reason im asking is because i want it to be louder haha
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12-23-2013, 01:55 PM | #6 |
Account Suspended
Drives: 03 vette, 94 trans am, 04 gto Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 995
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Stock manifolds all the way! Having headers and turbo's won't really make it louder as the turbo's act like a muffler. Don't worry if you get the AGP and leave the wastegate's open to atmosphere it'll be plenty loud! Plus hearing the turbo's spool up sounds amazing If you have any questions on their kit please let me know!
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12-23-2013, 04:44 PM | #7 | |
Drives: it changes Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1,126
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Quote:
Ive just adapted some truck manifolds for my car, and decided to retain a single 2" ID Sch10 pipe to the turbo. But even the BW with the 68mm turbine and 0.88 open scroll, where it necks down is surprisingly a lot smaller than the 2" ID tube I used to reach the turbo itself. I know headers are more efficient in terms of power, and flow. But when you see how small the scroll is inside, it does make you wonder. Also, how much backpressure vs boost were you seeing with the stock manifolds vs the tubular with the same turbos etc ? |
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12-23-2013, 05:28 PM | #8 |
Drives: 2006 Z06 Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 5,712
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Agreed, considering the hole that the air has to go through headers shouldn't make that big of a difference. Since the manifold is pressurized and turbos work off pressure differential the idea of headers using scavenging and pulse goes out the window too.
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Nick
Corvette Z06 -1200ish rwhp |
12-23-2013, 05:52 PM | #9 |
Drives: it changes Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1,126
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I'm certainly not saying tubular headers wont be a benefit. I'm genuinely asking the question how much, what do actual test results show ?
There is also the issue of trying to isolate cylinders to a degree for as long as possible, which longer tubes will do. Whilst yes turbos do use pressure, they also use heat energy, they also use flow. In an ideal world we'd have as little pressure pre-turbine as possible. So we certainly cannot say pressure in there is a good thing. Plus reading on tech etc, there does seem to be a lot of discussion saying that with a single, even a 2.5" crossover tube....ie a feed for 4cyls is huge even well beyond 4 figures. Which lead me to opt for the small 2" ID pipe. Plus it makes finding room for the damn things easier ! lol Plus it should maybe assist with spool too I hope. eg. BW T4 flange, 0.88 open scroll.. It's tiny in there !!! The Exducer is also 68mm OD, with substantial taken by the wheel itself, so is 2" too big, too small ? and given some flow will be dumped out the gate too. |
12-23-2013, 07:15 PM | #10 | |||
Boosted Moderator
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Quote:
We later went from the 67/66 turbos to the 76/75 turbos. We now have a very smooth torque line and a continually climbing hp line on the dyno... It doesn't hit near as hard but it goes way beyond what the smaller turbos did... and my IAT's are way lower than they used to be... We are back in the sweet spot of the boost map... according to Precision... Here's one for you on post turbo pressure... By removing the three inch exhaust from my car for the mile, and installing the 12" long 3.5 inch turndowns, we picked up over 100 RWHP... Quote:
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The opposite effect is too large a diameter of pipe causing a big void to charge prior to actually seeing boost... I have 3.5 inch down pipes, 4" charge pipes, a 5 inch intercooler with big tanks and the 2 inch exhaust manifold pipes with a 3.5 inch collector... I wish I had better research info but I only have dyno results...
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If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow. -Ross Bentley
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you. “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti If you can turn, you ain't going fast enough... |
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12-23-2013, 07:25 PM | #11 |
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NE/IA
Posts: 222
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We use stock manifolds on a lot of the builds but we do offer tubular manifolds or shorties on some of the bigger builds.
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12-23-2013, 07:39 PM | #12 |
Cory
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS M6; Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Carrollton, Tx
Posts: 299
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Alright, so reading all of this I have a question. My car currently has a 418ci LS3, all forged lower end, 102mm intake and TB, and 9.6:1 CR. I'm pretty set on the AGP TT setup in the coming months, and I'm looking to push 16-18# of boost on it. My question....with my larger displacement and lower CR, and the boost level I want to run, would shorties/turbo manifolds be worthwhile for me over the stock manifolds? I'm not looking for your power, SSE, but with higher displacement and boost, I don't want to choke the system either.
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12-23-2013, 07:40 PM | #13 |
Cory
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS M6; Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Carrollton, Tx
Posts: 299
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12-23-2013, 07:43 PM | #14 |
Drives: 2013 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NE/IA
Posts: 222
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