Noise with subframe connectors?

[TMoneySS]

Did anyone who installed subframe connector have any additional noise inside or outside the car? I would ike to keep the squeak and creaks to minimum. Thanks.

TMoneySS (Taylor)

[hypurone]

Absolutely zero noise with my Hotchkis chassis brace...

[Eric Baker]

I have no noise from my BMR connectors.

[Hotchkis]

HypurOne,
We're glad to hear you are enjoying the Hotchkis Chassis Brace. We haven't had any reports of additional noise from any of our Chassis Brace users, and we haven't noticed any in our our Project 5th Gen, F-11, which John Hotchkis has been driving daily as part of our R&D.

[BMR Sales]

We have actually had customers tell us that our BMR subframe connectors help with the squeaks and creaks the Camaros have, especially when going over speed bumps and other situations where the chassis would flex.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

We have actually had customers tell us that our BMR subframe connectors help with the squeaks and creaks the Camaros have, especially when going over speed bumps and other situations where the chassis would flex.

+1 We have heard this more than once.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by TMoneySS

Did anyone who installed subframe connector have any additional noise inside or outside the car? I would like to keep the squeak and creaks to minimum. Thanks.

TMoneySS (Taylor)

Your ZETA II Camaro is exceptionally well built. The Pontiac GTO 2004 - 2006 was built on the VZ Holden chassis. You can visit the GTO forums and find many cars with well over 100,000 miles and they are remarkably free of squeak, rattles and groans. The successor chassis at Holden was the VE or ZETA and came to the USA as the Pontiac G8. Visit the G8 forums and check on the structural integrity after years of use and abuse. You'll find the ZETA architecture to be robust and better than the earlier GTO. The ZETA II Camaro is an even stronger monocoque than the G8. Chevrolet built in the chassis braces on the GM assembly line. It is reasonable to expect that a 5th Gen Camaro will fare better as the years and miles accumulate than either the GTO or G8!

When GM designed the Camaro they built it well, very well. It was engineered to have an exceptionally strong monocoque. A solid monocoque translates into a higher perception of quality while enhancing performance and function. In the following series of pictures you can see how the 5th Gen Camaro has numerous 'chassis braces' built in at the factory using state-of the art design in the form of shape, construction and materials --

High-strength low-alloy (HSLA) steel is a type of alloy steel that provides better mechanical properties or greater resistance to corrosion than carbon steel. HSLA steels vary from other steels in that they aren't made to meet a specific chemical composition, but rather to specific mechanical properties. They have a carbon content between 0.05–0.25% to retain formability and weldability. Other alloying elements include up to 2.0% manganese and small quantities of copper, nickel, niobium, nitrogen, vanadium, chromium, molybdenum, titanium, calcium, rare earth elements, or zirconium.[1][2] Copper, titanium, vanadium, and niobium are added for strengthening purposes.[2] These elements are intended to alter the microstructure of carbon steels, which is usually a ferrite-pearlite aggregate, to produce a very fine dispersion of alloy carbides in an almost pure ferrite matrix. This eliminates the toughness-reducing effect of a pearlitic volume fraction, yet maintains and increases the material's strength by refining the grain size, which in the case of ferrite increases yield strength by 50% for every halving of the mean grain diameter. Precipitation strengthening plays a minor role, too. Their yield strengths can be anywhere between 250–590 megapascals (36,000–86,000 psi). Due to their higher strength and toughness HSLA steels usually require 25 to 30% more power to form, as compared to carbon steels

Martensitic Ultra High Strength Steel Maraging steels (a portmanteau of martensitic and aging) are iron alloys which are known for possessing superior strength and toughness without losing malleability, although they can not hold a good cutting edge. 'Aging' refers to the extended heat-treatment process. These steels are a special class of low-carbon ultra-high-strength steels which derive their strength not from carbon, but from precipitation of inter-metallic compounds. The principal alloying element is 15 to 25% nickel.[1] Secondary alloying elements are added to produce intermetallic precipitates, which include cobalt, molybdenum, and titanium.

Photos originally posted 11.11.2008 by aston70










Rear Sub-Frame Forward Bush / Bolt Area


Rear Sub-Frame Rear Bush / Bolt / Locating Post


The large bush OE sub-frame bush ferule fits over the Locating Post. This not only centers the sub-frame, but anchors it. The 5th Gen Camaro is well built and well engineered.

The key question is what benefit do you feel you will gain by installing a brace?

[My 5th]

I had the Pedders bushings and inserts installed with the Xa coilovers. I noticed no additional noise from those bushings. The differential bushings were not installed until later, and I do have noise from them. It is a "howling" from the rear when you make sharp turns. I think it is the posi clutches, and the noise is more noticeable now with the bushings. I've talked to other Camaro owners with other brands of differential bushings and theirs make the same noise, so I don't think it's isolated to Pedders.

I have a future fix--install Kooks headers and a 3" catback exhaust. I don;t think I'll notice the howling as much then.

[BMR guy]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I had the Pedders bushings and inserts installed with the Xa coilovers. I noticed no additional noise from those bushings. The differential bushings were not installed until later, and I do have noise from them. It is a "howling" from the rear when you make sharp turns. I think it is the posi clutches, and the noise is more noticeable now with the bushings. I've talked to other Camaro owners with other brands of differential bushings and theirs make the same noise, so I don't think it's isolated to Pedders.

I have a future fix--install Kooks headers and a 3" catback exhaust. I don;t think I'll notice the howling as much then.

I think that sounds like a great solution to me!

You are right about the bushings. 9 out of 10 customers don't notice any additional noise when using our BK016 subframe insert bushings or BK024 full subframe bushings. Adding differential bushings can amplify the differential whine slightly but it is very minimal and we offer three variations to this bushing to accomodaye everyone: 68 durometer polyurethane bushings (BK001), 95 durometer polyurethane bushings(BK029), and Delrin bushings (BK026).

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I had the Pedders bushings and inserts installed with the Xa coilovers. I noticed no additional noise from those bushings. The differential bushings were not installed until later, and I do have noise from them. It is a "howling" from the rear when you make sharp turns. I think it is the posi clutches, and the noise is more noticeable now with the bushings. I've talked to other Camaro owners with other brands of differential bushings and theirs make the same noise, so I don't think it's isolated to Pedders.

I have a future fix--install Kooks headers and a 3" catback exhaust. I don;t think I'll notice the howling as much then.

Headers will do the job Did you install the EP1167 or EP1167HD bushes for the differential?

[My 5th]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Headers will do the job Did you install the EP1167 or EP1167HD bushes for the differential?

I think they are the EP1167. I think my ring and pinion has too much backlash, and I wonder if that is contributing to the howling noise. I was thinking down the road I would have the JRE posi kit put in and have the backlash adjusted at that time. Do you think the backlash could be adding to the noise?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I think they are the EP1167. I think my ring and pinion has too much backlash, and I wonder if that is contributing to the howling noise. I was thinking down the road I would have the JRE posi kit put in and have the backlash adjusted at that time. Do you think the backlash could be adding to the noise?

Differential noise on the 5th Gen is close to a crap shoot. With the OE bushes, they are all quiet, in the cabin. In reality they are all noisy and some are loud. When the bushes get changed out, if you have a loud dif you hear it. With the EP1167 it generally is not a problem. Those that have installed the EP1167HD get noise and on a loud dif get a lot of noise.

Please check you dif bushes to see if they have holes. If there are no holes we can drop down to the bushes with holes.

Another question I should ask, is this an OE gear set?

[My 5th]

Yes, an OE gear set. Don't push me too hard to change gears to say, 3.73's. I've got a spending problem with this car, and all I need is a nudge... ;^)

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by My 5th

Yes, an OE gear set. Don't push me too hard to change gears to say, 3.73's. I've got a spending problem with this car, and all I need is a nudge... ;^)

Upgrading the factory 3.45s in a stock M6 equipped Camaro SS to 4.10s will realize an equivalent gain of approximately 20% or 84 rear wheel lb.-ft. of torque. That is all I'm saying.