ONSTAR: Big Brother is watching you!

[Chevyzone]

Originally Posted by Can-Am

Just did some research on this. Looked to see if there were any Ninth Circuit cases about the FBI using OnStar to spy on people. There weren't.

I then looked to see if there were ANY federal cases about the police using OnStar to spy on people. There weren't. Here is what I did find.

There was one case about Illinois police getting a warrant from a judge to track a drug dealer's truck using OnStar after the dealer had participated in a controlled buy. And one other case in Texas where some guy pressed his OnStar button by accident which led to OnStar calling the cops to make sure everything was OK. Guy was disruptive, cops searched the car and found a gun.

Ignore me if you want, and I'm sure many of you will, but there was no court case about the FBI using OnStar to track anyone. Even if they did, FBI or state police would need a warrant.

Glad you posted this.

I was just about to ask those that are so paranoid about OnStar, just how many cases they can cite where OnStar was used to 'spy' on them (or others) and use that information to proceed with any type of criminal charges.

[Richochet83]

Originally Posted by 2Muchmark

Found this:


Would it surprise you to find out that the FBI might be able to monitor private conversations in your car? A recent court case revealed that the FBI used the popular OnStar system to do just that.

GM cars equipped with OnStar are supposed to be the leading edge of safety and technology. OnStar has run a recent blitz of commercials citing helpless motorists calling in with every type of emergency, from a heart attack to locking the keys inside the car. In the advertising world, OnStar reacts quickly by sending help or even unlocking the car.

Read the full story at http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/onstar.htm

Something similar happened to one of my relatives. They were arguing on their cell phone and the OnStar folks chimed in without them even pushing the button asking was eveything ok. I never was a "just in case" type of person when it come to extreme safety measures on things such as cars, cell phones, and animals. Tracking devices like Animal chips, 911 locator on your cell phone, OnStar, etc...has always been something I said I can do without. If I could disable all of that stuff I would. For the record when you "sign-up" for those type of tracking device services you are waiving your right of privacy. But I'll leave my comments.

[z06invb]

To me it isnt what they are doing with On Star now it is what they could do with it in the future or what they could do with data that has been recorded. having it should be a personal decision. Some want it and others like me have never had it and have no desire to have it. I am a paramedic and work with many local,state and federal entities and I know what they can do when they want to.

As for the " black box " recordings it is true you need a court order to download the data. BUT....once the car has been totaled and you have been paid you no longer own the car. We had a case where we wanted access to that data as part of the fatality investigation. The car owner held it up in court. The insurance company was working with us accelerated the payment to the owner and the next day we went in and removed the data. The driver no longer owned the car.

As a safety feature it works. I have been on calls for air bags being deployed where the driver was not conscious. On the other hand the potential for its abuse is huge.

[bigralph]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

While many of us are not worried, it is worth pointing out that history maintains a trend of punishing people for nothing at all. We punished witches at Salem and communists in Congress, even though McCarthy knew that they were just opponents to his own success.

This is an opportunity for the government to have unnecessary information. This information is saved on high-tech computers that we paid for the government to keep and run by employees who receive pay from tax dollars. I'd rather that money go to a poor school district or to disaster relief than someone who can easily clip a recording to make a good American look bad.

I love my country. I want it to stay free and brave. For it to be free, liberties cannot be steamrolled. For it to be brave, we must all have the capacity to say what we want, do what we want, and live how we want.

We shouldn't have to worry about the words we say being placed in an order that incriminates us to someone who might benefit from our punishment.

It's not paranoia. The recordings are real. We're now waiting for someone to capitalize from someone's "un-American" conversation, even though it is "American" to say what we want in a place that grants to right to speak freely. There is no guarantee that we won't be punished for such statements, especially if they are true.

Contact your elected officials to discuss your freedom of speech. Tell them how you love your country, but you know that our nation's founders are rolling in their graves knowing that government has this sort of power over Americans.

:flag1:

[MrIcky]

Woot, Camaro5's very own little internet conspiracy theory. If you are going to be paranoid about this, then you better not have a cell phone made past 2007, but don't use land lines either. You better not be on cable tv or satellite if your program includes dvr. Get solar panels as well with a switch to keep you off the grid. The list goes on and on if you're concerned about big brother watching.

I'd think you'd all want Onstar just for the theft deterence if nothing else.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by hellraiser

Here's the concern, your at the track you crash your car and decide you want to pay the damage out of pocket instead of going through insurance. (not that they would cover you). Insurance co and everyone else involved with onstar will know. goodluck trying to get coverage after regardless if you put a claim in or not..

forget the terroist theory that dosen't conern us here, you guys have really been brainwashed with that garbage..

Take off the tinfoil hat. ONSTAR does NOT contact insurance companies with crash info. ONSTAR does NOT file police reports. ONSTAR does not put records into CLUE (Claims Loss Underwriting Exchange, where insurance companies get and share their data on previouis claims). They have NOTHING to do with your insurance. I know, I worked for one of the big ones.

The OBD III Box in your car is what you need to be concerned with, and only if you put in a claim and they have a reason to get a court order to pull the data from it (IE you killed someone, or the claims adjuster sees racing numbers on the side of the car, stuff like that).

[Mr. Wyndham]

This isn't OnStar's fault, this is the gov't 100%.

There HAS to be a listening feature in the car in order for you to interact with the OnStar rep. Like any hardwired device, you can't "delete it" when not in use. The FBI found out and decided to exploit this.

+1 for Blur; call your senators, etc...tell them to write a law preventing the entities from doing this if you don't like it.

On the flip-side........if you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about. Relax.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by z06invb

....

As for the " black box " recordings it is true you need a court order to download the data. BUT....once the car has been totaled and you have been paid you no longer own the car. We had a case where we wanted access to that data as part of the fatality investigation. The car owner held it up in court. The insurance company was working with us accelerated the payment to the owner and the next day we went in and removed the data. The driver no longer owned the car.

I didn't mention that earlier, yes its if you own the car they need a court order. If you don't.... Obviously the insurance company will not hide that data.

If he really wanted to hide it that was his mistake, he shouldn't have accepted the payment. Sorry but you may have made a mistake and killed someone, face up to your actions.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

While many of us are not worried, it is worth pointing out that history maintains a trend of punishing people for nothing at all. We punished witches at Salem and communists in Congress, even though McCarthy knew that they were just opponents to his own success.

This is an opportunity for the government to have unnecessary information. This information is saved on high-tech computers that we paid for the government to keep and run by employees who receive pay from tax dollars. I'd rather that money go to a poor school district or to disaster relief than someone who can easily clip a recording to make a good American look bad.

I love my country. I want it to stay free and brave. For it to be free, liberties cannot be steamrolled. For it to be brave, we must all have the capacity to say what we want, do what we want, and live how we want.

We shouldn't have to worry about the words we say being placed in an order that incriminates us to someone who might benefit from our punishment.

It's not paranoia. The recordings are real. We're now waiting for someone to capitalize from someone's "un-American" conversation, even though it is "American" to say what we want in a place that grants to right to speak freely. There is no guarantee that we won't be punished for such statements, especially if they are true.

Contact your elected officials to discuss your freedom of speech. Tell them how you love your country, but you know that our nation's founders are rolling in their graves knowing that government has this sort of power over Americans.

Blur, I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

I want to give some counter arguments though. Right now there is access to information and communication that would make the nation's founders dizzy. In 1790, for people to get together to do bad things- they had to meet. If their plans were complex or required technology, then some of these people had to have specific training. The only thing that allowed the Founding Fathers to 'conspire' was an ocean that gave them 2 months of reaction time.

The Bill of Rights was actually opposed by a large portion of the Founding Father's. They were a fractious group and after the War of Independance, some appeared to be almost Nixonian in their paranoia that someone was going to undermine their gains.

I also don't think they foresaw a time in which it wasn't necessary to meet in order to plan. They put in a clause saying people were free to peacefully assemble, but that doesn't preclude the government from having someone join the assembly. It would have been inconceivable to the founding fathers for foreign hostiles to enter our country with only a minor expenditure of wealth, then plot and plan over large distances and coordinate a multi-element attack within a 2 hour timespan using 19 people to kill several thousand.

My point is sort of beyond the Onstar debate, but hey I'm bored and like to hear myself type.

[MLL67RSSS]

Originally Posted by Can-Am

Just did some research on this. Looked to see if there were any Ninth Circuit cases about the FBI using OnStar to spy on people. There weren't.

I then looked to see if there were ANY federal cases about the police using OnStar to spy on people. There weren't. Here is what I did find.

There was one case about Illinois police getting a warrant from a judge to track a drug dealer's truck using OnStar after the dealer had participated in a controlled buy. And one other case in Texas where some guy pressed his OnStar button by accident which led to OnStar calling the cops to make sure everything was OK. Guy was disruptive, cops searched the car and found a gun.

Ignore me if you want, and I'm sure many of you will, but there was no court case about the FBI using OnStar to track anyone. Even if they did, FBI or state police would need a warrant.

You forgot one! Although not federal or involving the FBI.

http://www.wpbf.com/news/15651948/detail.html

Police Charge Teen In $24K In Damage To Soccer Field


BOYNTON BEACH, Fla. -- Investigators said a Manalapan teenager was caught causing $24,800 worth of damage to a soccer field after the On-Star system in his car tipped off police that he was the culprit.

Authorities said the 17-year-old spun a 2007 GMC Denali to make "donuts" all over the soccer field at Saint Joseph's School located at 3300 S. Seacrest Blvd. in Boynton Beach on Nov.21, according to a police report.

Police used On-Star GPS records to link the teen to the scene at the time of the vandalism, according to the report.

A police subpoenae of OnStar documents revealed that the company received a "collision notification" and that an OnStar employee contacted the teen, whose voice was then recorded.

The 17-year-old is facing charges of reckless driving and criminal mischief.




I guess some of the guys must be planning to do some donuts in soccer fields!

[Miketebo22]

Eh...i work for the man...i know how the man works...unless your some kind of high class criminal, you have nothing to worry about

[Dan]

Exactly, It will take a court order for Onstar to open its records to law enforcement and if that is the case then you are already being watched.

[Burlap]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

While many of us are not worried, it is worth pointing out that history maintains a trend of punishing people for nothing at all. We punished witches at Salem and communists in Congress, even though McCarthy knew that they were just opponents to his own success.

This is an opportunity for the government to have unnecessary information. This information is saved on high-tech computers that we paid for the government to keep and run by employees who receive pay from tax dollars. I'd rather that money go to a poor school district or to disaster relief than someone who can easily clip a recording to make a good American look bad.

I love my country. I want it to stay free and brave. For it to be free, liberties cannot be steamrolled. For it to be brave, we must all have the capacity to say what we want, do what we want, and live how we want.

We shouldn't have to worry about the words we say being placed in an order that incriminates us to someone who might benefit from our punishment.

It's not paranoia. The recordings are real. We're now waiting for someone to capitalize from someone's "un-American" conversation, even though it is "American" to say what we want in a place that grants to right to speak freely. There is no guarantee that we won't be punished for such statements, especially if they are true.

Contact your elected officials to discuss your freedom of speech. Tell them how you love your country, but you know that our nation's founders are rolling in their graves knowing that government has this sort of power over Americans.

Listen man,I know you THINK that big bro is out to get you...truth is, everyone who works for the government is wrapped up in trying to do as little work as possible and get by with a good rating. They're not going to put forward the effort to get your personal info.

I mean jeez, on the back of my military ID and ALL of my records, my social, address, DOB...you name it is plastered all over it. Mine and all other military memebers. So wouldn't you think that the identity theives would come after us first? Take off your tinfoil hat.

[camarossrs2150]

DONT ROB NO BANKS EITHER