A Few Things Chevy Could Learn from the Mustang GT

[sspolo]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

Lets not forget that Mustang had to play catch up with the Camaro. When the Camaro came out you could get a 425hp 1SS or a 300hp Mustang GT for nearly the same price. It is normal for them to play off each other. One gets a hp increase (Camaro ZL1) then the other gets better (Mustang Cobra). One improves track preformance (Mustang Boss) then the other improves to try and beat it (Camaro 1LE). Competition is great for development. Have you wondered yet, "If the Camaro had never come out, would the Mustang still be 300hp?"

300? I didn't know that! I wonder how Ford and Mustang fans felt when their 2010 Mustang had 300 hp and the 2010 Camaro had 100hp+ more than that.

[MikeSVX]

What about the ones that bought the 2010 two months before Ford announced the 5.0 Coyote engine would have 400hp and would be available in the 2011 Mustang.

[motorhead]

Chevy could also learn to make more power with less displacement and lighter weight cars.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Chevy could also learn to make more power with less displacement and lighter weight cars.

An engine with more power from less displacement would require an OHC setup. This creates a heavier, less reliable, more complex, and dimensionally larger engine. To give an idea, the 4.4L TT BMW V8 is similar in output to a new 6.2L LT1 small block. However, the BMW engine is much larger dimensionally over the LT1. Lighter cars are coming with the Alpha platform, so I'm not worrying.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Mr pogo

I wonder if chebby will come out with custom T-shirts for camaro owners like Ford did for mustang owners?

I wear these on a daily basis! Form fitting

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You should be aware that the Mustang's inferior suspension, quality, and testing give them more money to throw at these things.

Suspension is inferior, that is for sure, but quality of the car itself, doubtful.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Deki

I wear these on a daily basis! Form fitting



Suspension is inferior, that is for sure, but quality of the car itself, doubtful.

I'm sure we could find some fine young mustang driving ladies to model this shirt for us

[Stew]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

cant comment on the track apps...

last i knew ford actually had to pipe in exhaust/engine noise into the cabin.

fancy head lights aren't for everyone.


when i did my own comparison the camaro came with so much more standard and at a lower price. a pony car or sports car that doesnt have IRS is laughable...

i am a chevy guy but i like the mustang look the least out of the 3 (camaro, challenger, mustang). while all automakers have something to learn from each other i wouldnt try to describe the camaro as being inferior to any competitors car...especially once pricing comes into mind.

hope ford keeps making mustangs...if they dont what else would the 25-45 year old women drive?

Please tell me you don't really consider the Mustang or Camaro Sports cars.......... As far as Pony cars the SRA is COMPLETELY acceptable, especially in the Mustang where it is very well sorted out and let's be honest for once, it really doesn't matter to 98% of people who buy what kind of rear they have as they probably don't know or care anyways, the other 2% is going to split between those who want the Mustang for drag racing or the Camaro for turns, and again, honestly, the Camaro's advantage here isn't NEARLY as big as some make it out to be as the mustang comes out on top in it's fair share of runs on the twisties too.

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by _Nick_

New cars have a lot of sound deadening in them. On the outside, the Mustang's exhaust is louder.



A sports car based on a sedan platform weighing in at 3800+ lbs is laughable.

bet you the weight would be a lot closer if the camaro had the lighter cheaper older suspension of the mustang. please tell me whats wrong with the second interation of the chassis you speak of...pretty sure there is a II after the chassis name. but yes the camaros of this gen are heavy. if nobody told anyone the weight they wouldnt know it by driving. the biggest flaw to me is the suv wheels and tires.

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by Stew

Please tell me you don't really consider the Mustang or Camaro Sports cars.......... As far as Pony cars the SRA is COMPLETELY acceptable, especially in the Mustang where it is very well sorted out and let's be honest for once, it really doesn't matter to 98% of people who buy what kind of rear they have as they probably don't know or care anyways, the other 2% is going to split between those who want the Mustang for drag racing or the Camaro for turns, and again, honestly, the Camaro's advantage here isn't NEARLY as big as some make it out to be as the mustang comes out on top in it's fair share of runs on the twisties too.

people on car forums and true car enthusiasts arent in the 98%.

bottem line is that is has my dads tech in the rear end because it is cheaper. hopefully ford can realize its past the mayans deadline and make a IRS in their next mustang.

i am a chevy guy and not a un biased source. without mustang there is no camaro. shit they are pony cars after all fords stated intent to make the next mustang more euro friendly with styling does make me raise an eyebrow. and lets not forget that 4 banger monstrosity that ford called a mustang in the 80s

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

people on car forums and true car enthusiasts arent in the 98%.

bottem line is that is has my dads tech in the rear end because it is cheaper. hopefully ford can realize its past the mayans deadline and make a IRS in their next mustang.

i am a chevy guy and not a un biased source. without mustang there is no camaro. shit they are pony cars after all fords stated intent to make the next mustang more euro friendly with styling does make me raise an eyebrow. and lets not forget that 4 banger monstrosity that ford called a mustang in the 80s

IRS would be great in the mustang but they tried it with the 03/04 Cobras and like the present Camaros people were snapping axles at the strip, I was aggrevated with it in my Cobra snapping one and my prior SS, also snapping one. If Ford does decide to upgrade in 15 I hope they beef it up to something equal to the ZL1 for axle and differential strength, otherwise you will have alot of very unhappy stang owners as their focus is for the most part on the 1/4 mile. At least with the present rear you can throw massive amounts of power at it along with 5000-rpm drag slick launches and it seems to hold up.

In regards to handling, I would put my Brembo 5.0 right there with my SS, if not a tad quicker. If the road were bumpy the SS will be faster. I will say the normal driving the ride was smoother in the SS due to the car's weight and IRS. In the mustang you tend to feel the road imperfections more.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Garret

There is plenty for GM to learn from Ford but there is also tons for Ford to learn from GM, end of.

This ↑↑↑

Originally Posted by K32 Camaro

3) HIDs produce less forward light. Normal driving you probably don't notice, but on dark highways it makes all the difference.

Precisely. I have HIDs and I've intentionally staggered the headlight aims slightly to keep the less well-lit regions from the DS and PS lamps from lining up (and giving dark patches), and I generally run with the fog lamps lit once it gets dark enough to start seeing the illumination on the pavement. I shouldn't have to "make do" with those "crutches", but the situation is what it is.

Originally Posted by SPCBA

bottem line is that is has my dads tech in the rear end because it is cheaper. hopefully ford can realize its past the mayans deadline and make a IRS in their next mustang.

I'll give you "cheaper".

But until you're driving on bumpy pavement a well-done stick axle suspension is still better than an indifferently (or in some cases poorly) done IRS. Simply being able to say that you have IRS says nothing about its behavior. Remember that it wasn't until the ZL1 and 1LE Camaros came out that the ponycar handling consensus went to a 5th gen Camaro.

That said, I really like the 1LE for its stated minimum-compromise purpose. Now it's Ford's turn to play catch-up.


Norm

[Deki]

Originally Posted by newmoon

In regards to handling, I would put my Brembo 5.0 right there with my SS, if not a tad quicker.\

I think the 2012 SS with the FE4 updates would handle better than the current gen Mustangs. They were close to begin with, but I think the SS has the overall advantage now.

Originally Posted by newmoon

3) HIDs produce less forward light. Normal driving you probably don't notice, but on dark highways it makes all the difference.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Precisely. I have HIDs and I've intentionally staggered the headlight aims slightly to keep the less well-lit regions from the DS and PS lamps from lining up (and giving dark patches), and I generally run with the fog lamps lit once it gets dark enough to start seeing the illumination on the pavement. I shouldn't have to "make do" with those "crutches", but the situation is what it is.

I don't know where you guys are getting this that the HIDs have less forward light then equivalent halogen lamps, but it's completely wrong. If you can show any empirical data to show otherwise, I would like to see it. Maybe if you're using cheap aftermarket stuff, but all OEM stuff has better beam consistency, and more over all light projection where you need it then the halogen equivalents. There is a reason why they are more money and why more manufacturers are going with these set ups. Halogen and cheap xenon bulbs (not true HID) produce max about 30 lumens per watt, where HIDs produce about 90 lumen per watt. HID lights also have a more focused beam, and reach about 30% further, all while using less power and "whiter" lights (usually between 4700-6300k where halogen bulbs are under 3200k).

[Norm Peterson]

I am talking about the OEM HIDs on my avatar car, which are not cheap (you could only get them in conjunction with the security system).

The low beam pattern is not even (actually, many headlamp patterns are not, just that these are worse than most). And the color temperature is a little too high. Not quite blue, but noticeably past where most folks' eyes are the most sensitive. I suspect that it scatters a little more readily than "warmer" lighting.

I've been tweaking headlight aim and upgrading headlamp bulbs since before separate-bulb headlight assemblies were DOT-legal. I trust what my eyes are telling me that they see. Or in some cases, what they aren't seeing or where they aren't seeing it.

I'd rate evenness of pattern on low beam as being at least as important as reach and more so than lumens/watt efficiency. The more even it is, the less fatiguing it is. Decent fog lamps do a very good job of providing short range fill-in illumination.


Norm

[302-412]

Originally Posted by MikeSVX

Lets not forget that Mustang had to play catch up with the Camaro. When the Camaro came out you could get a 425hp 1SS or a 300hp Mustang GT for nearly the same price. It is normal for them to play off each other. One gets a hp increase (Camaro ZL1) then the other gets better (Mustang Cobra). One improves track preformance (Mustang Boss) then the other improves to try and beat it (Camaro 1LE). Competition is great for development. Have you wondered yet, "If the Camaro had never come out, would the Mustang still be 300hp?"

And if the Mustang never came out this would be a Corvair forum. And the Coyote does scream!