Oil change in progress

[erik13]

Originally Posted by skibik

Change my own oil on all my vehicles. This has to be the easiest one to change on. I love the location of the filter and how easy it is to change it. Has to be the first oil filter I don't dump oil all over the floor when changing it. Now I just need to figure out how to hit the oil pan when I pull the plug on this car as the oil will shoot just about to the passenger wheel.

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

[flyinglow57]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

for the ss's its 55 bucs for oil and filter alone...

[RJT Impala]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

I had oil change on 2014 Malibu 2lz 2.0L turbo done at dealer and I'm still trying to figure out how much oil they put in it. It was full, but I took 7 qts of Mobil 1 in; manual says capacity is 6.3 qts. I got 2 qts back. Dealer claims it only holds 5 qts. Guys on Malibu forum say they self change and it takes over 6. Chevy customer service rep says it holds 5. About ready to drain the oil myself and measure outflow and input.

[Rock-It Man]

Originally Posted by Oneflyenyceguy

I'm scared to drive on ramps. I will overshoot

I have a lot of experience with ramps, so let me share.

Regarding overshoot, it's true that you can't see the ramps by leaning out the window of a Camaro. Being used to driving onto ramps in trucks and vans, this was a shock to me, too. But I solved the problem by using a hand held mirror to look at the ramp while driving onto it.

The other problem is the tendency of ramps to slide away. This problem is unique to rear wheel drive cars, and is particularly bad on concrete garage floors, but not when using Race Ramps. These foam ramps stay put for me.

Some ramps also get pushed away by the air dam, but not Race Ramps. Another fix is to use wooden "pre-ramps" or build your own wooden ramps.

I still use the cheapo Rhino ramps on the FWD family cars, but I sprung for the Race Ramps for the Camaro. Using these and the mirror, oil changes are a breeze.

[Shift_Rejected]

I always thought the jack points were further up...

[S3XPanther]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

Some people actually take pride in doing all of their own work. Plus, it's nice to know your car inside and out.

[skibik]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

You have to realize I live in a rural area of the state and I am limited to resources of any nature. No dealerships or oil change shops within a 50 mile radius. We do have a couple local mechanic shops that does a lot of work on cars and does oil changes but that would mean I need to make an appointment, get my car to him during my work day so he can change it, get a ride back to work, get a ride after work to pick it up and still pay what you pay if I supply the oil and filter. Also it is a money thing, that would be about 2 hours wages after taxes for something I am more than capable of doing myself. And by doing it myself I get the satisfaction of knowing it was done right. Also, there are no shops that I know of within a 150 mile radius that gets $28 for a full synthetic oil change. I think $29 is the best for blend and usually at least $10 to $20 more for full synthetic. I am glad you found a shop that is reasonable and hopefully those muffins tasted good!

Dean.

[Rock-It Man]

Even if you don't do major repairs yourself, getting under the car to do an oil change gives you a chance to see what's gong on. You can check for fluid leaks and damage to the suspension and exhaust.

And you can do the oil change whenever you want. I usually do it early Sunday morning, when no one has any demands on my time.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

Well you're not sure what type or how much the dealer put n. So ppl do it themselves so you want need to worry about anything and you know for sure that your car gets the right oil. Plus you know that you get what you paid for and don't need to worry about the dealer tampering , braking, or stripping something. It's all about knowing what's really going on with your car.

[skirush]

Originally Posted by erik13

I just don't see why. I paid $28 last week for an oil change at the dealer...done in 30 minutes and had free coffee and muffins while I waited.

I don't think they did it for 28. I called 2 dealers by me and the cheapest they offered is about 35, plus I'd have to pay for the 6th quart since their price only includes 5 qts. I did it myself but got the added benefit of using Mobil 1 for the same price as they were going to charge me for their oil change with their cheap oil.

I also hate the idea of some guy touching my car. My brother had one shop strip the drain plug and they refused to admit fault or pay.

I think going to the dealer sucks. You end up catering to their schedule and waiting too long. One dealer actually asked me to leave the car for the day. .. For a freaking oil change! I can do it myself in 15 minutes.

[EMB135Driver]

Instead of ramps I cut some 2x12 pressure treated lumber into 3 foot sections (8 all together). Angled the ends of each board at 30 degrees, and laminated them together to form 4 home made ramps. I put them in front of each wheel evenly, back up a couple feet, and pull forward onto them. The oil pan drain is designed to work with the car level, that's why I use 4. Not as much room but it works and is a lot easier than jack stands.

[christianchevell]

wow, I only use dexos as its the blend recommended by the manufacturer, as I have roller lifters that have to roll, not just scrape along the cam as they are too slick. And you let them put mobile one in it.....shame read too much about that stuff just happening to be in engines that had problems..(in the motor section).... here is a nice read on synthetics I dug up for you for those of you who always think you have to do something other than what the people who made the car recommend. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf

I will most likely start using after my cam break in with its oil a premium pennsoil as its more available, but worry about the synthetic being too slick so I may just stick with dexos. But am really leaning towards joe gibbs driven products, and yes I will not be using the amsoil and draining my oil once a year or 15k..........


Yes heres the stuff............ http://www.drivenracingoil.com/




And for those of you to read and know and spread the word: yes its the truth:
GM LS Hydraulic Roller Cam Bulletin

Attn: GM LS Engine Owners
Re: Hydraulic Roller Cam & Lifter Failures Due To Improper Lubrication
As the marketplace stretches the power levels of the popular GM LS platform (especially in power adder applications), a marked increase is being seen in hydraulic roller cam lobe deterioration, along with lifter wheel and needle bearing failures. The root issue of this problem is a general lack of understanding about the lubrication needs of this engine platform.
Customers often do not consider the need for either a break-in oil or application specific formula due to the fact that their application utilizes a hydraulic roller cam. Since these LS engines are primarily for street/strip use, a typical customer may use a conventional 20W-50 “Racing Oil” or a similar off-the-shelf lubricant. The engines are thus not broken in with specialized break-in oil, meaning that the proper foundation for valve train durability is never established.
As street applications featuring the LS engine are not typically warmed up before driving, the heavy weight oil (such as 20W-50) is slower in flowing to the hydraulic roller lifters. The result is a lack of adequate lubrication. The LS platform pump and oiling system is designed for 5W-30 viscosity grade oil, so using heavier weight oil actually reduces lubrication and often leads to rapid valve train failure.
Driven Racing Oil™ recommends using BR30 Break-In Oil and LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil as a two-part solution to this growing problem.
By utilizing the BR30 Break-In Oil, the proper additive foundation will be introduced into the engine. This is accomplished first by breaking in the LS engine for 30 minutes to one hour much like a customer with a flat tappet valve train would. The customer should then drain the oil and change the filter, install a fresh fill of BR30 and continue to break-in the engine for the next 500 miles.
Due to the use of hydraulic lifters in these engines, it is critical that the oil be changed after break-in to remove the metal particulate created during the process. If these small particles are allowed to stay in the oil system for thousands of miles serious damage will occur.
After the break-in steps are complete, it is time to install the LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil, which is a properly formulated 5W-30 motor oil designed specifically for GM LS-based engines. The LS30 oil features mPAO synthetic base oil technology that increases High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) bearing oil film thickness, so the oil flows like a 5W-30 but protects like a 15W-40.
This innovative technology enables LS30 to provide the required viscosity for the LS oiling system and deliver the added protection required for higher lift cams and hydraulic roller lifters.
This two-step lubrication process provides the proper viscosity and additive chemistry for the unique requirements of modified GM LS engines with hydraulic roller valve trains. Properly completing this sequence of steps utilizing both the Driven BR30 Break-In Oil and LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil will establish the proper anti-wear film in the engine, remove harmful break-in particles and provide excellent ring sealing.


This entry was posted in Tech Bulletins on April 5, 2010 by admin.

Matter of fact I am going to buy * qts of br30 today...at my local auto parts store that carries it.



Street Performance Products

STREET/TRACK GM LS POWERED

• Engine Oil
  • • BR30 – Break-In – Conventional Oil
    • LS30 – Synthetic Oil
• Gear Oil
  • Break-In – Conventional Gear Oil
  • 75W-110 – Synthetic Gear Oil
• STF – Syncromesh Transmission Fluid
• PSF – Power Steering Fluid
• CSP – Coolant System Protector

[skibik]

FYI, Dexos is a specification not a brand of oil and Mobile 1 is Dexos approved or meets the Dexos specifiaction. Also, OP has a V6 and our engines require 5W-30 synthetic blend that meets the Dexos specification and Mobile 1 meets and exceeds that. I don't think there was any special break in oil in my engine, first question I asked when they brought me back to meet the service manager was how long of a break in period do I run before first oil change. Answer:3000 mi. and your supposed to vary driving speeds in that time.

What you have posted is a lack of lubrication due to using to high viscosity oil then what is recommended and has nothing to due with Dexos.

Dean.

[christianchevell]

Like DAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, no SSSSSS sheerluck. I put out rocket science info and you come back with dexos is a specification, And you obviously did not read what I posted from good sites as they say Mobil one sucks basically. And the break in they are talking about is specifically a new engine install or : the cam shaft the most common performance option change in a engine< and this is my 2nd Camaro ss , and I am a old hot rodder........ And its not a lack of lube due to its synthetic "oil", its the missing the mainly Zinc content and being too slick to make the rollers work right as I have seen on posts here from people having ruined a cam, and lifters from the lifter sliding not rolling on the top of the cam, a reason to not just go blindly with any old synthetic as a blend is actually better for your engine as it makes the rollers move through more friction. You break in info is in the manual for you car also, I am putting this info out to help people, unfortunately people here think everything is eligible to debate, and do not go to the real experts the industry that creates the vehicles and that makes the lubricants. And you want to use the worst synthetic oil go right ahead. And synthetic is not mineral based oil, its all chemicals and trying to get a chemical to bond with other chemicals to make a good lubricant is hard and there is a lot of difference between the "oils" http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf

I am just trying to get info out , here you want to know the best stuff you may want to use or break down read this site with driven motor oils or don't..........WTF

Street Performance Products

STREET/TRACK GM LS POWERED

• Engine Oil
  • • BR30 – Break-In – Conventional Oil
    • LS30 – Synthetic Oil
• Gear Oil
  • Break-In – Conventional Gear Oil
  • 75W-110 – Synthetic Gear Oil
• STF – Syncromesh Transmission Fluid
• PSF – Power Steering Fluid
• CSP – Coolant System Protector
  
  here read....... and theres a lot more where that came from, and you really should have read the amsoil comparison before talking about mobil one the worst on wear synthetic out there.

Don’t Fall For The Myths!

We separate fact from fiction with some of these more common—and harmful—oil myths
By Jeff Huneycutt
We live in a world where more is better. More money in the bank account, more friends in the Facebook account, we even know some people with more tattoos than we care to count. But among all types, horsepower freaks and gearheads may be the worst. When it comes to horsepower more is never enough, even if it means sacrificing durability and drivability.
If that describes you, we’re not here to judge. After all, we’ve been guilty of giving in to horsepower gluttony ourselves (more than once). But we think we can help you with a few ways to gain horsepower while adding durability, too.
A big part of Driven Racing Oil’s Lake Speed Jr’s job is to help engine builders, racers and even everyday gearheads find the right lubricants that will help improve their rides. Lake says many of the mistakes he sees people make are because of a lack of good information available. Without it people are forced to depend on what they think they know, the occasional urban legend and advice from friends—but who knows where they are getting their information from? Lots of times it comes down to commonly believed myths and with little based on real facts. Here are a few myths we hope to help you avoid in the future.
The “Viscosity Equals Protection” Myth
Many gearheads use motor oil viscosities higher than necessary simply because it is what they’ve always used. But engine technology and components are constantly evolving, and motor oils have evolved along with them. Because of advanced chemistry, a modern engine oil can provide superior protection even at lighter weight viscosities, and that lower viscosity helps free up some horsepower because the oil pump doesn’t have to work as hard to move the oil throughout the engine.
“But I’ve got a lot invested in my ride,” you say. “I’m more concerned with maximizing longevity than squeezing out every last ounce of horsepower. Wouldn’t I be better off still running a modern synthetic oil with a higher viscosity?” The answer is probably not.
The myth of improving protection by increasing viscosity can actually be harmful to your engine in some circumstances. As much as 70 percent of the wear on an engine occurs at start up. That’s because while the engine has been off, the oil has an opportunity to drain back into the pan and away from the areas it needs to be. Obviously, you want to get oil back to the bearings, the cylinder walls and all the way up to the valve train as quickly as possible to bring the protection back where it should be.
So while a thicker, higher viscosity oil does usually provide a stronger film surface to protect the bearings, that only applies once the oil is in place and ready to do its job. But thicker oil is more resistant to flow, and it takes longer for the oil pump to push it through the oil galleries to where it needs to be. A thinner, lower viscosity oil flows more easily right at startup and gets to those critical areas more quickly. Because of that, a thinner oil can actually do a great job of reducing the wear an engine sees when it is first cranked.
But that’s not the only way the myth of more viscosity can hurt both your engine’s performance and protection. The oil’s viscosity must be properly matched to the components in order for both to work their best. “One of the easier and more popular ways to make more horsepower in modern engines is to use lightweight, thinner piston rings that have less tension between the ring and the wall of the cylinder bore,” Speed explains.
“If you use a motor oil that’s too thick for the application,” he continues, “one of the problems you can run into is those low-tension rings won’t be able to properly wipe the cylinder wall and too much oil will find its way into the combustion chamber.”
So the obvious question becomes how thick is too thick? Or, how thin is too thin? After much research, Speed says a good rule of thumb is to monitor the oil pressure at idle when the engine is up to operating temperature. Consider 20 pounds of hot oil pressure at idle to be a safe minimum, so start with your usual oil viscosity and lower the viscosity at each oil change until you get to 25 or 30 pounds idle pressure. Just make sure you use a high-quality oil that won’t lose film strength under normal operating temperatures.
The “More Additives” Myth
Another common myth is that since most high priced “performance” oils advertise their super deluxe additives, and many companies are even selling bottles of motor oil additives to add to whatever oil you like, then more additives are always better. You’d better believe this isn’t true. Additives have to be carefully matched one to another to make sure they work together as a package. Speed says there are chemicals in many common additives that actively counteract the effects of other additives. So simply dumping a bottle of some additive into your engine during your next oil change can actually leave you worse off than if you had done nothing.
Similarly, choosing a motor oil because it has a higher percentage of a particular additive can also be counterproductive. One of the most popular additives–especially for racers or owners of muscle cars with engines using flat tappet camshafts and lifters–is Zinc, also known as ZDDP, because it creates a protective sacrificial barrier between the camshaft and lifter faces that slowly wears away. More Zinc in the oil doesn’t mean more protection; it means that the additive in the oil will last longer before it is all used up.
There are also different types of Zinc additive packages. Some are designed to work best in diesel engines, some are less harmful to catalytic converters, and some are designed to provide simply to provide maximum valve train protection. Thinking an oil with the highest concentration of Zinc will provide the most protection is a myth because not all Zinc additive packages are created equally. For example, an oil containing 2,000 parts per million of a Zinc package designed to work well with catalytic converters may not provide as much protection for your race car or classic muscle car as a performance oil with 900 parts per million of a Zinc additive package optimized for valve train protection.
The effectiveness of Zinc in your oil is also affected by the quality of the base oil the manufacturer uses. Besides its protective qualities, Zinc is also an anti-oxidant. Manufacturers of lower-quality motor oil use Zinc to mask the deficiencies of their base oil which will begin oxidizing even under normal engine operation. That leaves the Zinc doing a job besides protecting your cam, which means that, just like the previous example, even though the oil may have a higher concentration it won’t protect your engine as well as a performance oil that actually has less Zinc but uses a higher quality base oil that’s not as susceptible to oxidation.
Driven Racing Oil, by the way, uses a brand new fully synthetic base stock known as “mPAO”. Its extreme resistance to both oxidation and heat means Driven’s chemists can use the right additives and in the right amounts that can make a real difference for performance engines.
The “Break-In” Myth
One of the most critical times in any engine’s life is when it is first cranked after assembly. This is the break-in period when all those new parts need to mate together. The common myth of breaking in a new engine is that new parts need to “wear” in.
“The problem with this myth is that people often don’t realize that there is a very real difference between reducing friction and reducing wear,” Speed explains. “While it sounds like the same thing, it’s not. ZDDP is a great example. It is very important for the break in process, especially if you are using a flat tappet camshaft, to use the right type and amount of ZDDP because it reduces wear. But ZDDP doesn’t reduce friction.”
Many people have been told not to break in on synthetic oil because it is too “slippery”. This is because oils are designed to reduce friction, and your engine needs friction to get the ZDDP to activate and help “chemically” mate the parts without wearing the parts out during the break-in period. Low friction motor oils, especially synthetics, are designed to reduce friction which will substantially lengthen the amount of time required to break in an engine.
When an engine is fired for the first and all those parts begin moving together, the engine is essentially finishing up the honing process begun by your engine machinist. As the parts are moving together for the first time, especially the piston rings moving against the cylinder bore, they scrub off tiny pieces of metal that are carried away by the oil. All the things created by your engine during break-in are bad for your engine. This is why you want to complete the break-in process as quickly as possible so that you can change the oil as well as the filter and flush out all the contaminants as soon as you can. Too much friction reduction means it takes longer for the rings to seat and that’s more time the engine is putting contaminants into the oil. A well-designed break-in oil prevents excessive wear while quickly mating the parts. This approach reduces wear and completes the break-in process faster – something a race team can appreciate.
But there’s also a second break-in myth worth covering here. Zinc’s main purpose is to protect and reduce wear. A roller lifter doesn’t experience sliding friction like a flat tappet so it doesn’t need nearly as much Zinc. And because of that there’s a common myth that a good way to break in a new engine with roller lifters is to use the absolute cheapest oil you can find.
While it is true that a cheap motor oil doesn’t provide the same lubricity (or “slickness”) that a higher performance oil will, it also doesn’t have the right chemistry to provide proper protection, either. Believe it or not, there is a difference between lubrication and protection. A good break-in oil is designed to provide just the right amount of lubrication so that the rings will seat quickly while protecting the components from any more wear than necessary.
” We’ve worked really hard to formulate our break in oil so that it provides protection to the engine but also allows it to break in quickly and properly,” Speed says. “It is definitely not the same as our motor oils because it has a very specific purpose. Chemically, it is very different than our other stuff out there.”
The “Racing is Always Better” Myth
It is true that auto racing is a great testing ground for new technologies and components. But that doesn’t mean something created to meet the needs of racers is also the best thing to meet the requirements of a street machine. This definitely includes your motor oil. Even if you have a high-horsepower engine built using a lot of racing components, that doesn’t mean an oil formulated for racing will be the best choice. Keith Jones of Total Seal Piston Rings has a great story concerning this very scenario. He says, “Whenever we are talking to a customer or a potential customer, the first question we always ask is ‘What’s your application?’
“The perfect example of that is the guy that’s building a 632-inch big block that makes 1,200 horsepower running on pump gas,” Jones explains. “And he figures, ‘Hey, it makes 1,200 horsepower, it must be a race engine,’ but he’s driving it around town, it hardly ever gets above part throttle and the oil temp never gets hot enough to boil off any contaminants in the oil. But since he’s making all that power he figures he’s got to run a full race oil, which usually contains very little detergent.
“So with those conditions he will wind up with a lot of contaminants in his oil. A race oil is designed to be changed after every few races, but since he’s driving on the street he’s going thousands of miles between oil changes and that contamination eventually builds up in the crosshatch in the cylinder bores. Next thing you know he’s got an engine that has a lot of cylinder blow-by, it’s got oil control problems and it’s just generally running like a dog.
“So quite often we’ll get a call from that guy complaining because he thinks he got a bad set of rings and now he’s got to tear down his expensive engine and re-hone the cylinders. He’s mad, and you couldn’t really blame him if the rings really were the problem–but there’s really nothing wrong with his motor. I’ll tell that person to go out and get some high-detergent oil, like a diesel oil, run it for a couple weeks and see if his performance improves. And almost every time they will call me back within a couple of days saying, ‘Hey, the engine is perfect again.’
“There was nothing wrong with the engine all along,” Jones says. “The problem was he had the wrong motor oil for the application and it affected cylinder sealing. What he needed was a high-quality street oil like Driven sells that has the proper amount of detergent to keep the contaminants under control while also having the capability to provide proper lubrication for a high-horsepower engine.”
So there you have it. We certainly haven’t hit every lubrication myth out there, but these four hopefully will give you a great start on finding the right oil that is a perfect match for your engine’s needs and will do a great job of helping you maximize both performance and longevity.

This entry was posted in Tech Articles and tagged Break-In Oil, Driven Racing Oil, Joe Gibbs Racing, Oil Myths, Street Performance Oil on August 26, 2013 by admin.
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And I am going right now to pay $80 to get oil to break in my new cam I have been waiting to have installed for my headers coming Monday. And BTW I will have the $80 worth of break in oil in my car for about 1/2 to 1 hour at 2,500 rpm to 3,000 rpm on a dyno while its being H.P. tuned by a electrical engineer mechanic at the best shop closest to my home with the best person I could find even though its in another state............ Then the oil gets dumped, and I will change it after about 500 miles after that and go to the ls3 oil .......... Oh and did I ask a question? And this is to get the info out to those who happen to read and can understand that is very important what lube you use now as they have removed most of the ZDDP out of common oil and synthetics due to the liberal sucking EPA and its effects on catalytic converters now as they have thrown every old motor head and every old car under the bus as far as getting the lubrication they need unless they have been paying attention they may not even know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or you could watch those gas monkey guys on their hot rodding show where they build a old Shelby Hertz mustang, eat the cam immediately on a new engine , pull the motor, and say oh we screwed up...we thought just good old motor oil with some additive would do it.. but the oil did not have the ZDDP, then they have the engine entirely rebuilt most likely because the metal form the ground off cam has gone through hurting every bearing etc..... And then they use Driven motor oil BR30 and break in the motor right...I know I could see the friggin quart........ And yes he has a v-6, does that mean he cannot learn something from this?