Help me pick a Camshaft. - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

christianchevell · 09-27-2016, 05:55 PM

Your lifter and cam may not have agreed on the oil not having the right sheer..... Your oil can not be too slick or it will just drag the roller not turn it and that's a bummer. You may have had a bad lifter roller, or bad lobe of the cam also. Me I am using a 8620 core cam and driven racing ls30 oil. In your place I would just do new stock rockers or bushing the existing.

Which came first the chicken or the egg.. not easy to tell, I would want to make sure the lifters bore is good, and of course you will need new lifter baskets, new lifters, pushrods, springs, gaskets, and me I do a break in with br30 oil. Knowing how many miles are on the springs is crucial if your a preventative maintenance person as with higher lifts the springs get worn out quick.. like 25k area so staying with the same springs a ? as to the miles on the engine. Springs are not a one and done like a good old SBC with a .500 lift cam being radical for a flat tappet, a whole lot of difference between a .660 lift spring and .500 lift + spring. Not saying the springs are shot but they do wear out over the miles, and the higher they rev the harder it is on them.

Good Luck what ever you do, up in your neck of the woods I like Livernois, though I run a Cam Motion cam now I had a TSP that was real sweet and not a problem with either.

cypressh · 09-28-2016, 10:03 AM

Thanks for the suggestions Christian, Ill be lucky if I have 3k on the springs and never really hammer down on it, so Hi revs are not a worry, I have already checked the lifter bore and it is good.

As far as the oil I don't think that it would be an isolated issue with 1 lifter, it would of affected them all in my opinion, and if not affected them all there would be more than 1 cam lope worn down with some pitting, the old lifter that I pulled out almost felt like it would bind at a certain spot leading me to believe that the roller bearings were starting to pile...IMO that saved me a shit ton of money and heartache.

So back to the matter at hand, I will be looking for a Cam, Pushrods, Lifters(linked or non), was contemplating doing the BTR rocker Bushing kit in place of the Comp Cam trunions. I also Figured that since the heads are off I may send them for a port and polish and get that out of the way and not have to worry about it again.

Bo White · 09-28-2016, 10:44 AM

Yes ported heads while it's apart

Dmpsix · 09-28-2016, 11:00 AM

Jeez, any idea or tips/suggestions on how to prevent this or what could've prevented this?

cypressh · 09-28-2016, 12:40 PM

Dmpsix my tips/suggestions are don't buy a previous owner modified car unless there is paper work that goes along with what has been done to the car..... if you look back at some of my previous threads you will see what I have battled with since I bought the car all of which the Previous Owner failed to do when putting the cam in.

Livernois Motorsports · 09-29-2016, 01:12 PM

Hey guys, there are a few steps that can be taken to avoid LS valvetrain failure. Really you should do these anytime that you upgrade your valvetrain. The first way to avoid this is to manually check your piston to valve clearances, or if you cannot have it done by a professional. The second, is to have your cam professionally degreed. Next, is to make sure that your lash and tip heights are all correct. These steps will guarantee that everything is setup correctly, thus avoiding the possibility of this happening.

These are all things that we do for you when you entrust us to upgrade your LS3. Another safety step that we suggest is installing our rocker base system. This will limit the amount of "chatter" or unwanted third axis movement on the pushrod, thus increasing efficiency and overall life.

We can actually send you a complete valvetrain upgrade kit that will be all ready for you to install upon arrival! You will have all new:

Powerstorm GM L92 Street Series Cylinder Heads
Powerstorm L92 2C or 2C High Lift Cam (these are the two most popular cams but we have others too. Call or email us to discuss and see which one will best fit your needs & desires.)
Powerstorm GM L92 Rocker Arm Base
AND
Powerstorm LS 7.400 Pushrods

JCunningham · 09-29-2016, 01:40 PM

Will the bases quiet down the valve train?

Livernois Motorsports · 09-29-2016, 02:41 PM

An LS will always be kinda "ticky". The bases are not designed made to quiet things down, but they will SLIGHTLY. I would never market them as a product to turn things down.

christianchevell · 09-29-2016, 06:49 PM

Looks like a nice product, does Livernois do a bushed rocker arm as the trunnions are a worry? Or recommend a different rocker set up all together other than stock for say a medium build pressing 500 to the rear wheels or more? I know various places have different levels and you being so stable and one of the best shops for any make muscle car I value your opinion more versus a shop that turns out to be low volume and not always long lasting or reliable in their information or especially knowledgeable as some places have folded people used here, like say Lethal, some have had their image tarnished pretty well over time.....Like say " insert name of some that have been covered up over time", and some go bankrupt..... But you your stable and long standing and not just a sticker and some aftermarket cam or swap a blower on and embroidered head rest and stripes and say its....whoopee for the Name... like say a name brand Hennessey, or Calloway, or etc..... Because I always find their builds a little lacking and way spendy like say Nickey... And I am a shopper who has wished to do a road trip to you guys some day and just do it up right more while visiting relatives in Minnesota my wife has...

zz430camaro · 09-29-2016, 07:14 PM

Livernois states that you should degree your camshaft but when you buy one from them it comes with no cam card. Just having duration at .05 and lobe separation is not enough to degree a cam unless it has no advance or retard ground into it. They told me that was all the info I needed but its completely wrong. Then they told me to just line up the dots, are you kidding me.

Russell James · 09-30-2016, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmpsix

Jeez, any idea or tips/suggestions on how to prevent this or what could've prevented this?

Just my opinion....be careful in your cam company selection. Mass production....not my favorite. Companies that grind their own ... Cam Motion, Texas Speed.... or companies that use Cam Motion to do their grinds... to me, much more focused on quality.

There is a problem in the aftermarket cam grinding world called "grinder burn". It's basically not grinding the cam in the correct fashion... something is wrong... grinder speed, grinding temp, depth went through the hardening.... All kinds of things that basically end up with grinder burn and a finish or metallurgy that will not last. Has nothing to do with oil, or installation... if the cam was ground with grinder burn, and the hardening is screwed up, or the finish is screwed up... those lobes will not last. And it's no coincidence that most of the problems that develop come from the same suppliers.

Cam grinding is such a science. A company that is meticulous about their product vs mass production... A cam core is hardened prior to grinding. You have to do that so that the finished grind is to spec. If you hardened after grinding... the dimensions would change during that hardening process. So, the grinding is being done on a hardened core. Screw something up in that grinding process...bye bye hardening. Hence the whole grinder burn problem that plagues the aftermarket.

Chose wisely, chose quality over sale price.

And if your lobes wipe out...look more at the metallurgy of the lobes and not a theory of oil slipperiness.

Also when doing a cam job, do it right... new lifters, new buckets, measure for correct PR length... Those buckets are a wear item. Plastic interference fit that wears over time. A new more aggressive cam... and older wore out lifters and buckets, I wouldn't do that.

Russell James · 09-30-2016, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz430camaro

Livernois states that you should degree your camshaft but when you buy one from them it comes with no cam card. Just having duration at .05 and lobe separation is not enough to degree a cam unless it has no advance or retard ground into it. They told me that was all the info I needed but its completely wrong. Then they told me to just line up the dots, are you kidding me.

Here's how that can work just fine...

If they know the cam is perfect... if their cam supplier ran it on a cam doctor. And if you are using a GM timing gear. They know those two things will result in your cam timing being to spec if you line up the dots.

The GM timing gears are built to OE specs. So a lot of these shops will recommend to make sure to use the GM upper timing gear. If you go aftermarket... that when you can get into unkown variations and you will need to degree in the cam.

So... those two things... they've cam doctored the cam, and you're using an OE gear... you'll be fine with just lining up the dots. At least to a high probability.

09-27-2016, 05:55 PM	#15
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,587 View My Garage	Your lifter and cam may not have agreed on the oil not having the right sheer..... Your oil can not be too slick or it will just drag the roller not turn it and that's a bummer. You may have had a bad lifter roller, or bad lobe of the cam also. Me I am using a 8620 core cam and driven racing ls30 oil. In your place I would just do new stock rockers or bushing the existing. Which came first the chicken or the egg.. not easy to tell, I would want to make sure the lifters bore is good, and of course you will need new lifter baskets, new lifters, pushrods, springs, gaskets, and me I do a break in with br30 oil. Knowing how many miles are on the springs is crucial if your a preventative maintenance person as with higher lifts the springs get worn out quick.. like 25k area so staying with the same springs a ? as to the miles on the engine. Springs are not a one and done like a good old SBC with a .500 lift cam being radical for a flat tappet, a whole lot of difference between a .660 lift spring and .500 lift + spring. Not saying the springs are shot but they do wear out over the miles, and the higher they rev the harder it is on them. Good Luck what ever you do, up in your neck of the woods I like Livernois, though I run a Cam Motion cam now I had a TSP that was real sweet and not a problem with either. __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

09-28-2016, 10:03 AM	#16
cypressh Canadian Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lumsden Saskatchewan Posts: 406	Thanks for the suggestions Christian, Ill be lucky if I have 3k on the springs and never really hammer down on it, so Hi revs are not a worry, I have already checked the lifter bore and it is good. As far as the oil I don't think that it would be an isolated issue with 1 lifter, it would of affected them all in my opinion, and if not affected them all there would be more than 1 cam lope worn down with some pitting, the old lifter that I pulled out almost felt like it would bind at a certain spot leading me to believe that the roller bearings were starting to pile...IMO that saved me a shit ton of money and heartache. So back to the matter at hand, I will be looking for a Cam, Pushrods, Lifters(linked or non), was contemplating doing the BTR rocker Bushing kit in place of the Comp Cam trunions. I also Figured that since the heads are off I may send them for a port and polish and get that out of the way and not have to worry about it again. __________________ 2011 Camaro SS/RS --------------------------------------------------------- The cars we drive say a lot about us.

09-28-2016, 10:44 AM	#17
Bo White Drives: 2015 Summit White 2SS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Vance Alabama Posts: 8,019	Yes ported heads while it's apart __________________ Retired wanna be cylinder head porter 2015 2SS 1LE Clutch reservoir, Vararam DRX, ported TB, TSP 2" headers, MGW shifter Totalled: 2010 1SS Wilkes Performance/Eagle 416 shortblock, TSP custom valvetrain, PRC 260 heads, Edelbrock Pro Flo 102, th400 swap, 8" PTC 5500 stall= 535/435 at the wheels tuned Gen 3 Performance and Dyno 10.97 @ 124 full weight in 3100 DA CamaroFest X

09-28-2016, 12:40 PM	#19
cypressh Canadian Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Lumsden Saskatchewan Posts: 406	Dmpsix my tips/suggestions are don't buy a previous owner modified car unless there is paper work that goes along with what has been done to the car..... if you look back at some of my previous threads you will see what I have battled with since I bought the car all of which the Previous Owner failed to do when putting the cam in. __________________ 2011 Camaro SS/RS --------------------------------------------------------- The cars we drive say a lot about us.

09-29-2016, 01:40 PM	#21
JCunningham Drives: 2017 2SS M6 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: WNY Posts: 7,070	Will the bases quiet down the valve train? __________________ real ZL1 wheels and brakes, 285/305 Michelin Pilot Super Sports, Pray ported Intake manifold, Soler Throttle Body, Rotofab intake, EFI Tuning Flex fuel kit, full American Racing Headers Exhaust, 1 7/8" w/ cats H pipe and mufflers. Full 1LE suspension, with BMR adjustable sway bars and links, GM aluminum cradle bushings, Hurst shifter with lighter reverse spring, TWM shifter knob, Tick level 1 transmission. I should have bought a ZL1

09-28-2016, 11:00 AM	#18
Dmpsix Drives: Black L99 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,862	Jeez, any idea or tips/suggestions on how to prevent this or what could've prevented this?

09-29-2016, 01:12 PM	#20
Livernois Motorsports Drives: 2010 Camaro 454 LSX (SOLD) Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Dearborn Heights, MI Posts: 792	Hey guys, there are a few steps that can be taken to avoid LS valvetrain failure. Really you should do these anytime that you upgrade your valvetrain. The first way to avoid this is to manually check your piston to valve clearances, or if you cannot have it done by a professional. The second, is to have your cam professionally degreed. Next, is to make sure that your lash and tip heights are all correct. These steps will guarantee that everything is setup correctly, thus avoiding the possibility of this happening. These are all things that we do for you when you entrust us to upgrade your LS3. Another safety step that we suggest is installing our rocker base system. This will limit the amount of "chatter" or unwanted third axis movement on the pushrod, thus increasing efficiency and overall life. We can actually send you a complete valvetrain upgrade kit that will be all ready for you to install upon arrival! You will have all new: Powerstorm GM L92 Street Series Cylinder Heads Powerstorm L92 2C or 2C High Lift Cam (these are the two most popular cams but we have others too. Call or email us to discuss and see which one will best fit your needs & desires.) Powerstorm GM L92 Rocker Arm Base AND Powerstorm LS 7.400 Pushrods

09-29-2016, 02:41 PM	#22
Livernois Motorsports Drives: 2010 Camaro 454 LSX (SOLD) Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Dearborn Heights, MI Posts: 792	An LS will always be kinda "ticky". The bases are not designed made to quiet things down, but they will SLIGHTLY. I would never market them as a product to turn things down.

09-29-2016, 06:49 PM	#23
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,587 View My Garage	Looks like a nice product, does Livernois do a bushed rocker arm as the trunnions are a worry? Or recommend a different rocker set up all together other than stock for say a medium build pressing 500 to the rear wheels or more? I know various places have different levels and you being so stable and one of the best shops for any make muscle car I value your opinion more versus a shop that turns out to be low volume and not always long lasting or reliable in their information or especially knowledgeable as some places have folded people used here, like say Lethal, some have had their image tarnished pretty well over time.....Like say " insert name of some that have been covered up over time", and some go bankrupt..... But you your stable and long standing and not just a sticker and some aftermarket cam or swap a blower on and embroidered head rest and stripes and say its....whoopee for the Name... like say a name brand Hennessey, or Calloway, or etc..... Because I always find their builds a little lacking and way spendy like say Nickey... And I am a shopper who has wished to do a road trip to you guys some day and just do it up right more while visiting relatives in Minnesota my wife has... __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

09-29-2016, 07:14 PM	#24
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	Livernois states that you should degree your camshaft but when you buy one from them it comes with no cam card. Just having duration at .05 and lobe separation is not enough to degree a cam unless it has no advance or retard ground into it. They told me that was all the info I needed but its completely wrong. Then they told me to just line up the dots, are you kidding me.