What's considered a Muscle Car? - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

*Mr. Wyndham* · 01-13-2009, 11:16 AM

These cars, both V6 and V8 share nothing with the traditional Muscle car. IRS v LRA, 6-speeds v 3-speeds, 10mpg v 27mpg, frame + body v. unibody...the only thing similar is the name and the engines. But even those have evolved significantly.

The term "Muscle Car", imho, is just an affectionate name for the new Camaro and friends. It doesn't properly describe them at all. I consider the Camaro a 2+2 Sports Car, true and through.

bobscogin · 01-13-2009, 11:36 AM

The "sports car" or "muscle car" label as applied to the Camaro is arguable. I started driving in 1965 and followed the development of "muscle cars" closely. By the definition we understood then, the Camaro is not a muscle car. In the early 60's manufacturers began producing intermediate size cars with smaller V8 engines. GM, in particular, had a policy that limited V8 engine size to 327 (plus or minus cubic inches), hence the 326 in the Tempest, 330 in the Cutlass, the 327 in the Chevelle, etc. GM did this to keep the intermediate size car sales from cutting into the more expensive full size car sales. If you wanted a 389 or 421 Pontiac, you had to step up to a full size, because before GTO the largest you could get in a Tempest was a 326. It was Pontiac's John DeLorean that first did an end run around the engine size limit policy by installing the 389 from the full size Pontiac into the Tempest, thus creating the GTO. All the other GM divisions soon developed their own intermediates with engine from their full size models. Thus, a "muscle car" was an intermediate size body given additional "muscle" by installation of a large displacement engine previously offered only in full size models. Obviously, much has changed since then, and the Camaro doesn't fit that category, so call it what you will but it ain't a "mucle car" in the classic sense.

Bob

ArcAngel · 01-13-2009, 11:40 AM

Dragoneye I agree 100% only name and heritage belong to the musclecar term the rest modern day Sportscar

Vash · 01-13-2009, 12:02 PM

Aye needs a new term because these cars use KITT (all the electronics and safety devices etc) just as much as legs. Advanced Sports Coupe.

Bails · 01-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stingr69

This is a semantic argument. No real winner either way. The term means different things to different people.

On one side you have the term "muscle car" painted with a wide brush to include any fast car. Fast car = Muscle Car.

On the other side you have a more precise break down where we can subdivide into "sports cars" such as Vettes, and "pony cars" such as Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers, and "Muscle Cars" (Intermediates with large engines) such as Chevelle SS, GTO's, Chargers and GSX's.

You can pick a side if you want to but I don't think you can officialy "win" this argument.

-Mark.

+1 It's a pony car

truth411 · 01-13-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidfire350

muscle car = V8, RWD, 4/5 seats: camaro, charger, challenger, mustang, the old LT1 impalas......

sports car = track-minded suspension, 2 seater: corvette, viper, ford GT......

Using your definition, you would have to say the porsche 911 is not a sports car but a muscle car because it is a 2+2 seater?? naaaaaahhh, muscle cars traditionaly means going fast in a straight line and thats about it. Sports cars are about handleing and brakeing just as much as striaghtline speed. If my definition is correct then the camaro is a modern sports car with slightly retroish styling and a historic name.

bobscogin · 01-13-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bails

+1 It's a pony car

+1 again. (Does that = +2?) The Mustang was, for obvious reasons, the first "pony car" and hence the name was often used to refer to it and it's competition as being in the "pony car" category. If Camaro has to be categorized, that's where it fits. Still a competitor to Mustang, but better.

Bob

kevin2323 · 01-13-2009, 01:02 PM

it is a modern day muscle car....

camaro5 · 01-13-2009, 03:19 PM

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: muscle car
Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving

ccc

JMAN311 · 01-13-2009, 04:14 PM

The internet take on these categories of cars:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(automobile)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car

2010 Camaro RS · 01-13-2009, 04:25 PM

The new Camaro will be one bad ass Muscle Car!

truth411 · 01-13-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaro5

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: muscle car
Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\
Function: noun
Date: 1969

: any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving

ccc

Again I believe that definition is flawed, if that is the case then that would mean that america has never made a sports car ever... Corvette, Dodge Viper, Ford GT etc... would all be considered muscle cars not sports/super cars.

liquidfire350 · 01-13-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truth411

Using your definition, you would have to say the porsche 911 is not a sports car but a muscle car because it is a 2+2 seater?? naaaaaahhh, muscle cars traditionaly means going fast in a straight line and thats about it. Sports cars are about handleing and brakeing just as much as striaghtline speed. If my definition is correct then the camaro is a modern sports car with slightly retroish styling and a historic name.

The Porsche 911 has a v8, I did not know that

NAHURRY · 01-13-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2010 Camaro RS

The new Camaro will be one bad ass Muscle Car!

Thats how I see it!

01-13-2009, 11:16 AM	#29
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,876 View My Garage	These cars, both V6 and V8 share nothing with the traditional Muscle car. IRS v LRA, 6-speeds v 3-speeds, 10mpg v 27mpg, frame + body v. unibody...the only thing similar is the name and the engines. But even those have evolved significantly. The term "Muscle Car", imho, is just an affectionate name for the new Camaro and friends. It doesn't properly describe them at all. I consider the Camaro a 2+2 Sports Car, true and through. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

01-13-2009, 11:40 AM	#31
ArcAngel Drives: 07 Black Cobalt SS/SC Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manalapan-NJ Posts: 2,872	Dragoneye I agree 100% only name and heritage belong to the musclecar term the rest modern day Sportscar __________________ Through HIM you believe in GOD, who raised HIM from the dead and Glorified him..

01-13-2009, 03:19 PM	#37
camaro5 Drives: X-15 Velocipede Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: SW Florida Posts: 4,637	Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Main Entry: muscle car Pronunciation: \-ˌkär\ Function: noun Date: 1969 : any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving ccc __________________ Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge General Motors ASEP, A.S. Automotive Technology, Telecommunications Specialist, CISCO Network Engineer STANDARD DISCLAIMER camaro5 is furnishing this information "as is". camaro5 does not provide any warranty of the information whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the information will be error-free.

01-13-2009, 04:14 PM	#38
JMAN311 Drives: 2013 F-150 Limited Join Date: May 2008 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 2,191	The internet take on these categories of cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(automobile) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_car __________________ There just might be a 2016 Camaro or Corvette in my future... _____________________________________________ Previous Chevy's 2013 Camaro ZL1 A6\|SIM 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS\|M6\|CGM Exterior\|Gray Int 2000 Camaro SS\|M6\|SLP headers\|SLP center mounted quad exhaust\|Magnaflow muffler\|Hypertech programmed 2001 Corvette\|M6\|LG Motorsports Headers\|Corsa Touring Cat-back\|Magnaflow X Pipe\|Hurst short-throw\|Dyno tuned

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01-13-2009, 11:36 AM	#30
bobscogin Drives: 2016 Challenger R/T, 1965 Impala SS Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Slidell, LA Posts: 116	The "sports car" or "muscle car" label as applied to the Camaro is arguable. I started driving in 1965 and followed the development of "muscle cars" closely. By the definition we understood then, the Camaro is not a muscle car. In the early 60's manufacturers began producing intermediate size cars with smaller V8 engines. GM, in particular, had a policy that limited V8 engine size to 327 (plus or minus cubic inches), hence the 326 in the Tempest, 330 in the Cutlass, the 327 in the Chevelle, etc. GM did this to keep the intermediate size car sales from cutting into the more expensive full size car sales. If you wanted a 389 or 421 Pontiac, you had to step up to a full size, because before GTO the largest you could get in a Tempest was a 326. It was Pontiac's John DeLorean that first did an end run around the engine size limit policy by installing the 389 from the full size Pontiac into the Tempest, thus creating the GTO. All the other GM divisions soon developed their own intermediates with engine from their full size models. Thus, a "muscle car" was an intermediate size body given additional "muscle" by installation of a large displacement engine previously offered only in full size models. Obviously, much has changed since then, and the Camaro doesn't fit that category, so call it what you will but it ain't a "mucle car" in the classic sense. Bob

01-13-2009, 12:02 PM	#32
Vash Drives: 00 Blazer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 5,104	Aye needs a new term because these cars use KITT (all the electronics and safety devices etc) just as much as legs. Advanced Sports Coupe.

01-13-2009, 01:02 PM	#36
kevin2323 Drives: challenger Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: miami Posts: 2,338	it is a modern day muscle car....

01-13-2009, 04:25 PM	#39
2010 Camaro RS Drives: 2006 Monte Carlo Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Farmington, NM Posts: 60 View My Garage	The new Camaro will be one bad ass Muscle Car!