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Old 11-03-2008, 11:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
I like it. Hook me up! Honestly!!

My list of positives towards this:
+1: Diesel motors last...forever. Exaggeration, but 99% of people will agree.

+1: Diesel engines are (yes, I'm going to say it) CLEAN. Thanks to after-treatment, its high compression ration, super-hot burn etc, etc...they're probably cleaner than gas engines.

+1: There's enough torque to detune it and still provide whiplash-inducing performance while getting 40+ mpg. Take that f'n prius!!

+1: The fuel economy these engine produce (especially in small cars) is phenominal. There's a reason the Prius was beating in a fuel-economy test vs the BMW 520d (for diesel)

+1: In terms of alternative energy, Biodiesel seems more easily produceable than other fuels (Ethanol, green gasoline, etc, etc). So these things will be around for a while as America's workhorse (trains, trucks, and some automobiles). And diesel fuel is much more energy-rich than gasoline allowing much of what I'm "+1-ing" to happen...

+1: These things have enough torque to reach outrageous high speeds. People say horsepower is the ruler of top-speed. While that may be true, it takes 2 things to make high horsepower: rpms and torque. So if you have low rpms (deisel) compensate for it in high torque (diesel).

+1: There is an aftermarket and racing future for diesels. I believe somebody posted up videos of a turbo-guy raving about Turbo desiels as being the wave of the future, or something or other...he's not wrong. They're most effective being so brutally powerful. I believe Audi fitted a deisel to their R8 supercar? hmmmmm


-2: In order to handle the massive torque these things put out you're going to need an incredibly robust vehicle, meaning weight in reinforcements, etc. So don't look for any weight savings by going deisel. In addition, deisel engines are expensive to a comparable-hp gas engine. All that after-treatment and emmissions equipment are expensive additions to the engine itself.

I'd go for it.....seriously.


Fun tidbit for everybody -- the NOx after treatment involves urea..... Not kidding. (and I know, it's not pee...but it sounds funny)
+1 Tuning, with exhaust and intake a tune on a turbo diesel can produce massive horsepower gains and they can spin higher RPMs than they do stock as well.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:04 AM   #16
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Power numbers aren't everything. The overall driving characteristics of diesel lead me to question how fun it will really be in enthusiastic driving. I'm not saying you can't have a performance diesel application, but it would really have to be tuned differently than the truck engines. Much differently.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by stovt001 View Post
Power numbers aren't everything. The overall driving characteristics of diesel lead me to question how fun it will really be in enthusiastic driving. I'm not saying you can't have a performance diesel application, but it would really have to be tuned differently than the truck engines. Much differently.
i concur, we dont know how the power curve works out or how fast the engine rev's
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:11 AM   #18
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you meant MPG not MPH...lol


here's an idea for everyone to mull over..... Z28 Diesel Camaro!!!! 500+ lb-ft of torque!!! and 40mpg...
IF that were possible, then yes...it would be worth the higher price of the gasoline. We'd then break even since diesel is about $4 or so over here.
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:19 AM   #19
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and then the car would be even more front heavy....
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:43 AM   #20
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I like the idea of a Diesel Camaro, but I don't like the idea of paying more money for fuel that is less refined than gasoline. Also whats the problem with the Diesel engine being DOHC?
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:17 AM   #21
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One, and Im not saying this completly justifies it, but one of the reasons diesel is more expensive now, is beacuse we have moved on to ultra low sulfer diesel. One of the things that the sulfer did for the engine was lubricate it. Now to make up for the lack of sulfer, there are addititves that need to be added that did not need to be before. Add that to the cost, and we get prices higher than normal. I agree however that it does seem to be much higher than it should be now.

However the cost of diesel is offset by the economy that it can provide. For an extra dollar a gallon, you can go another 15-20 miles per gallon. When you look at it that way, it just makes sense.
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:46 AM   #22
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One, and Im not saying this completly justifies it, but one of the reasons diesel is more expensive now, is beacuse we have moved on to ultra low sulfer diesel. One of the things that the sulfer did for the engine was lubricate it. Now to make up for the lack of sulfer, there are addititves that need to be added that did not need to be before. Add that to the cost, and we get prices higher than normal. I agree however that it does seem to be much higher than it should be now.

However the cost of diesel is offset by the economy that it can provide. For an extra dollar a gallon, you can go another 15-20 miles per gallon. When you look at it that way, it just makes sense.
Well you have a good point about the additional MPG's, but this ultra low sulfur Diesel has been a standard since 2007 right? I remember Diesel costing more than gasoline long before 2007.

You also have to pay a premium for that Diesel engine. What does the Diesel engine option usually go for? About $2000-$5000 more over a gas engine? Sometimes even more thanks to the additional emission equipment needed. So the time to make that money back might even be more.

Now the final and most important question, will a Diesel V8 make the Camaro as fast as the LS3/L99 equipped Camaro's? I know Diesels have advanced greatly over the past 20-30 years but that doesn't mean all Diesels are rockets, some are still slow snails.
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:30 AM   #23
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I remember reading that GM's new breed of diesel V8's are intended to be about the same size as a gasoline small block.
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:32 AM   #24
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I remember reading that GM's new breed of diesel V8's are intended to be about the same size as a gasoline small block.
they are the same size because they use a narrow angle V8 configuration but they will still be heavier considering thier Steel/graphite alloy blocks
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #25
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Well you have a good point about the additional MPG's, but this ultra low sulfur Diesel has been a standard since 2007 right? I remember Diesel costing more than gasoline long before 2007.

You also have to pay a premium for that Diesel engine. What does the Diesel engine option usually go for? About $2000-$5000 more over a gas engine? Sometimes even more thanks to the additional emission equipment needed. So the time to make that money back might even be more.

Now the final and most important question, will a Diesel V8 make the Camaro as fast as the LS3/L99 equipped Camaro's? I know Diesels have advanced greatly over the past 20-30 years but that doesn't mean all Diesels are rockets, some are still slow snails.
they do cost more over a gasoline engine, and rightfully so, you arent getting just a motor, you are getting a turbo'd motor. imagine the price on a gasoline V-8 with a turbo from the factory. but to offset some of that cost, look at the fact that you can nearly double your MPG ratings. it might take a little bit of time to counter the price, but diesels are generally longer lasting engines by design due to the way they work and the way they are built to run. which means less maintenance as well. and turbo diesels respond so well to tuning. go look at the Banks "six-shooter" setup for diesels, an extra 250 lb-ft of torque and 100 hp from just a tune... re-freaking-diculous.



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they are the same size because they use a narrow angle V8 configuration but they will still be heavier considering thier Steel/graphite alloy blocks
yes and no. they are heavier than aluminum blocks, (and stronger too), but they are lighter than traditional steel blocks.

i dont know exactly how much it weighs but GM reps have said they are shaving weight at every point they can to allow the use of this motor in vehicles other than trucks without having to substantially change the suspension on the vehicle.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:23 PM   #26
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yes and no. they are heavier than aluminum blocks, (and stronger too), but they are lighter than traditional steel blocks.


then how is that a yes and no....if its still heavier then an all Aluminum engine i am correct.....
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:24 PM   #27
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Power numbers aren't everything. The overall driving characteristics of diesel lead me to question how fun it will really be in enthusiastic driving. I'm not saying you can't have a performance diesel application, but it would really have to be tuned differently than the truck engines. Much differently.
This engine in a Camaro would be a blast to drive. Check my sig. for my current Duramax. It only turns 4k but puts out over 1000 ft/lbs to the wheels. It also weighs in at over 7k lbs for race weight.
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Old 11-04-2008, 05:58 PM   #28
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they do cost more over a gasoline engine, and rightfully so, you arent getting just a motor, you are getting a turbo'd motor. imagine the price on a gasoline V-8 with a turbo from the factory. but to offset some of that cost, look at the fact that you can nearly double your MPG ratings. it might take a little bit of time to counter the price, but diesels are generally longer lasting engines by design due to the way they work and the way they are built to run. which means less maintenance as well. and turbo diesels respond so well to tuning. go look at the Banks "six-shooter" setup for diesels, an extra 250 lb-ft of torque and 100 hp from just a tune... re-freaking-diculous.
You're not only paying for that turbo. You have to pay for emission equipment and a transmission that can handle the additional torque. So that even adds more to the price. You bring up good points about the durability of Diesel engines, but GM's gasoline V8 engines seem to be very solid. I know my commuter car uses a gasoline 4 cylinder engine, but after 15 years the only things ever changed on it was the water pump and the belts as maintenance required by the book. I think that would be the standard of all modern gas engines also, which isn't that bad.

Other than the high price tag I am still concerned about the stock performance of a Diesel powered Camaro, the V6 might even be faster.
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