[RLHMARINES]

The Camaro team did a hell of a job with the zeta chassis to bring us our Camaro back and to also provide us with the various performance models to boot, all this from a heavy fullsize sedan platform.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

It shows that GM slapped a bunch of expensive parts on it.

I guess you don't consider carbon fiber wheels and a one off FPC V8 expensive?

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

The Z/28 was not asked to be cheap but it was tasked to be fast, and that it was in spades. The Z/28 was also not a baked in design from the start like the GT350R and/or the ZL1 1LE is, so validation timelines have to be done to ensure reliability and production schedules are met.

I don't mind a parts bin car as long the parts bin itself is prolific in the fruit that it bears, then I'm totally fine with it.

Something truly special this way is a coming.....

I'm not saying the Z/28 is a bad car. My dad has a 15 and I love it. I would take it over my 1LE without hesitation. My point is, if GM wants to charge $60k+ for a Camaro, I don't think its unreasonable for that Camaro to get its own engine.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I guess you don't consider carbon fiber wheels and a one off FPC V8 expensive?



I'm not saying the Z/28 is a bad car. My dad has a 15 and I love it. I would take it over my 1LE without hesitation. My point is, if GM wants to charge $60k+ for a Camaro, I don't think its unreasonable for that Camaro to get its own engine.

We have to look at it from a business standpoint that after the economic collapse of '08 and bankruptcy, GM has been steadfast on being more profitable and efficient and it shows on their bottom line as compared to Ford and FCA.

I would love a unique engine for the Z/28 but I understand that we have a historically dominate older sibling in the Corvette that helps leverage the cost of going fast but anything is possible with the new GM.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

I would love a unique engine for the Z/28 but I understand that we have a historically dominate older sibling in the Corvette that helps leverage the cost of going fast but anything is possible with the new GM.

It also dictates what engines are built, and how. The manual Camaros have no need for AFM components, but they are stuck with more fragile lifters, so Corvette can have AFM. The ZL1 didn't need a 1.7 liter blower to clear its hood. The ZL1 could fit a bigger blower, and be more competitive with the other cars in its range. The ZL1 1LE could have been the Z/28, if Corvette didn't dictate the LT4 over an n/a V8. Hell, the ZL1 could have came with the new Eaton 2.65 blower and made a lot more power, but that doesn't happen because of the Corvette.

[brick777]

I just saw an an article where A Katech C7 Z06 was fully modified putting out 850 hp (don't know if it was rwhp or at the crank) however, that's not what caught my attention. This Katech executive mentioned that they were working on a streetable 750 hp NA LT1; started playing with this experiment back in 2013 ? So, I do believe that Chevrolet indeed does know how to get massive amounts of NA horsepower and torque out of a LT1 ??? Source found on LSX magazine (online)

[BradfordCamaro]

Katech has a 427ci with 700hp. Others have big LT1s as well.
Its if GM wants too

[GrimReaperSS]

What you guys are currently describing is what I would love to have at this moment. Either taking a Gen 6 SS 1LE or a C7 Grand Sport and shipping it to Katech for a 427 conversion. Unfortunately my bank account doesnt agree with that, haha. My question for a Gen 6 Z/28 though, does it really need to have more power than the LT4 if the vehicle weight can be brought down significantly? What if it were only a 550-600hp car, but one that weighed 150-250 lbs less? I could say higher weight loss, but Im trying to stay within reality, I even feel 200-250 is already really pushing it. I just dont fully understand the need for a never ending HP hunt from the manufacturers. My 4th Gen SS has a 7.0L conversion and is in the 600-650 hp range. Thats already a lot for that car, spinning tires mostly through 3rd gear (on 315mm Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's). How much is really necessary for a street car? I honestly dont see a Z/28 coming out that is a track ONLY car like a Challenger Demon is.

[GrimReaperSS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It also dictates what engines are built, and how. The manual Camaros have no need for AFM components, but they are stuck with more fragile lifters, so Corvette can have AFM. The ZL1 didn't need a 1.7 liter blower to clear its hood. The ZL1 could fit a bigger blower, and be more competitive with the other cars in its range. The ZL1 1LE could have been the Z/28, if Corvette didn't dictate the LT4 over an n/a V8. Hell, the ZL1 could have came with the new Eaton 2.65 blower and made a lot more power, but that doesn't happen because of the Corvette.

Keep in mind that by using an already EPA proven LT4 engine for the ZL1, GM doesnt have to pay to R&D a seperate engine and pay for emission certification testing again etc....

[1998Z28]

Originally Posted by Xmitterengineer

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.mercuryracing.com/automotive/

I haven't read the entire thread, forgive me if this is redundant.

I can remember wondering why GM would retain OHV design with the LS1 engine, and I decided that maybe they were positioning themselves to transition to the next big valve train technology: camless engines.

It's taken a while, but Koensige (sp?) is claiming to be close to a production camless engine using electric valve operation. Theiir test engines are converted
from Volvo production engines, I think, and gained a claimed 40% torque over the stock engine. Didn't GM have a pretty big stake in Volvo at one time?

I'm not saying that this about to happen at GM, but if a tiny company can do this, certainly GM can't be far behind. And it improves emissions and fuel mileage as well according to claims.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by 1998Z28

I can remember wondering why GM would retain OHV design with the LS1 engine, and I decided that maybe they were positioning themselves to transition to the next big valve train technology: camless engines.

It's taken a while, but Koensige (sp?) is claiming to be close to a production camless engine using electric valve operation. Theiir test engines are converted
from Volvo production engines, I think, and gained a claimed 40% torque over the stock engine. Didn't GM have a pretty big stake in Volvo at one time?

I'm not saying that this about to happen at GM, but if a tiny company can do this, certainly GM can't be far behind. And it improves emissions and fuel mileage as well according to claims.

GM back in the late '80's sold off a controlling interest in Detroit Diesel in a joint venture with one of Rodger Penske's many companies which is now wholly owned by Daimler, and they also sold off a controlling interest of its GMC & Chevy heavy duty semi business to Volvo Heavy in a joint venture company called Volvo GM Heavy Truck which gave us the WhiteGMC heavy truck line for a while but is now wholly owned by Volvo Heavy.

GM at one time owned the Saab car line before it was discontinued and Ford at one time owned the Volvo car line.

[Deakins]

The biggest problem that I see when you talk high HP NA engines is the BSFC and the emissions. Both are mandated to be essential decreased every year (directly or indirectly due to regulation) over the manufactures entire product line. While the Camaro, Corvette, and larger vehicles in the lineup are pulling those averages up they are essentially vying for their place across the table from a small vehicle that pulls those averages back down.

Big NA HP requires either big CID or high RPM or both...and these things tend to kill BSFC and emissions. There's only so many small vehicles to offset this so to keep things in balance you see things like 6.2 L supercharged engines making 650 hp instead of a 7.0+ L NA engine trying to make 600 hp. It's all a balancing act these days, one that takes some of the options off the table for the manufacturers. Just my .02

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by brick777

I just saw an an article where A Katech C7 Z06 was fully modified putting out 850 hp (don't know if it was rwhp or at the crank) however, that's not what caught my attention. This Katech executive mentioned that they were working on a streetable 750 hp NA LT1; started playing with this experiment back in 2013 ? So, I do believe that Chevrolet indeed does know how to get massive amounts of NA horsepower and torque out of a LT1 ??? Source found on LSX magazine (online)

Sure, they know how. They designed one originally planned for the C7 Z06. However, they couldn't make it meet all the requirements for regulations they must answer to. A company like Katech does not have those hoops to jump through.

I doubt GM threw the big N/A engine in the dumpster. I'm sure they're still hitting the drawing board to find a way to make it work. It's a matter of time and technology.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by GrimReaperSS

Keep in mind that by using an already EPA proven LT4 engine for the ZL1, GM doesnt have to pay to R&D a seperate engine and pay for emission certification testing again etc....

If any of that stuff resulted in the Camaro being cheaper than competing vehicles with unique engines, I wouldn't mind.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If any of that stuff resulted in the Camaro being cheaper than competing vehicles with unique engines, I wouldn't mind.

Chevy offers the best performance bang for the buck.

$57,045 GT350
$44,495 SS 1LE

$64,545 GT350R
$63,795 ZL1 M6

$68,285 Hellcat A8
$66,190 ZL1 A10

The SS, GT, STR level is more complicated to outline but the same holds there for performance per dollar. Chevy doesn't do poor performing V8 per dollar...at all really.

I do however agree that the 1.7L blower should not be in the Camaro. PERIOD.