Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V8


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2011, 12:45 PM   #15
DSX
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam88gta1 View Post
Because I have 7 hours invested in tuning these injectors. There was no info for the id850 in the e38. I was told to make it work then provide ID with the file afterwards for "evaluation". I didn't say the product is bad. I simply said it is a stock Bosch GM injector with a 2 minute modification.
If it's a two minute modification and Injector Dynamics is all hype, then why aren't you doing this two minute modification and selling 850cc injectors? Yes, they modify an OEM injector. They've never denied that, and it is stated on their website. They also modify it in a way that it will still have low pulse control, and then they go further to get all the data together so that tuners have the appropriate data to make these injectors work properly.

FWIW, your statement about shipping out rolls of 200 is bull shit. They've never sent an order of that quantity at one time of any injector to any shop. Ever.

Yes, they didn't have copy/paste data available for that specific application. The raw data still existed though. All they do is refit the raw data to the various table labels... Which anyone who is half-ass math inclined can do themselves with ease.

You are saying their product is bad when you say it's just a simple modification and they charge too much. The fact is... nobody produces a product that even comes close in quality.

Saying you won't return them because you have seven hours invested is bull shit... especially considering you said you liked them. Let's just call a spade a spade here.
DSX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2011, 09:35 PM   #16
Sam88gta1
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS / 2006 CC Duramax
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rowlett
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX View Post
If it's a two minute modification and Injector Dynamics is all hype, then why aren't you doing this two minute modification and selling 850cc injectors? Yes, they modify an OEM injector. They've never denied that, and it is stated on their website. They also modify it in a way that it will still have low pulse control, and then they go further to get all the data together so that tuners have the appropriate data to make these injectors work properly.
FWIW, your statement about shipping out rolls of 200 is bull shit. They've never sent an order of that quantity at one time of any injector to any shop. Ever.
Yes, they didn't have copy/paste data available for that specific application. The raw data still existed though. All they do is refit the raw data to the various table labels... Which anyone who is half-ass math inclined can do themselves with ease.
You are saying their product is bad when you say it's just a simple modification and they charge too much. The fact is... nobody produces a product that even comes close in quality.
Saying you won't return them because you have seven hours invested is bull shit... especially considering you said you liked them. Let's just call a spade a spade here.
I didnt know what the injector was until I had it in my hand. If I had time to buy the injector in bulk and modify them I would sell the injector just like that other site does and use the ID data.
There is no such thing as a modification that help control at low PW. The data is what enables you to control the injector. Ive tried to dismantle the injector and it is impossible. The only way to modify the injector is the way ID and others do. Simply by cutting the spray disk off the end of it.

The injector is batched and sent in rolls to a company named T1. You must buy the ID's from T1 (ID's only true distributor). There they are boxed and shipped.

I never said the product was bad. I said it was advertised as having data when infact they did not. If you have a Motec you are golden or if you have an application where someone developed the data already. I have to meet a deadline with a customers vehicle and tuning another set of injectors would add another two days to the build.

Do I need to modify a stock injector and test it next to a ID850 to prove you wrong? I could do the same to the ID1000 and ID2000.

Do you understand what that will do to the future of ID?

Not many have challenged ID and to date that I know of no one has put the proof to paper. Ive been known to be the one calling bullshit but I am not exactly interested in picking it up so you can smell it.
Sam88gta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 07:26 AM   #17
DSX
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam88gta1 View Post
I didnt know what the injector was until I had it in my hand. If I had time to buy the injector in bulk and modify them I would sell the injector just like that other site does and use the ID data.
There is no such thing as a modification that help control at low PW. The data is what enables you to control the injector. Ive tried to dismantle the injector and it is impossible. The only way to modify the injector is the way ID and others do. Simply by cutting the spray disk off the end of it.

The injector is batched and sent in rolls to a company named T1. You must buy the ID's from T1 (ID's only true distributor). There they are boxed and shipped.

I never said the product was bad. I said it was advertised as having data when infact they did not. If you have a Motec you are golden or if you have an application where someone developed the data already. I have to meet a deadline with a customers vehicle and tuning another set of injectors would add another two days to the build.

Do I need to modify a stock injector and test it next to a ID850 to prove you wrong? I could do the same to the ID1000 and ID2000.

Do you understand what that will do to the future of ID?

Not many have challenged ID and to date that I know of no one has put the proof to paper. Ive been known to be the one calling bullshit but I am not exactly interested in picking it up so you can smell it.
In other words, you'd ride the coat tails of somebody else's work because you can't do it yourself. Got it, you're a cheat. Just wanted to clear that up.

I'm well aware of what T1 is. T1 coupled with Yaw Power make up Injector Dynamics. That doesn't make T1 the one true distributor. Yaw is the production facility, T1 is the sales/distribution facility. I'm well aware of how it is all set up.

All you had to do for the data was post an Excel file for Paul and he would have had it in a matter of minutes for you. Instead, you chose to beat around the bush complain about how you've been waiting and waiting, yet haven't received anything. You just wanted a reason to complain.

Do it. Modify a stock LS3 injector and compare it to an ID850. When I say compare, I mean get the actual characterization data developed. It's just hype according to you, so it shouldn't be hard to get. I bet you could do it in your mom's basement!

You're already on the war path to plant seeds of doubt. Why not put your back into it instead of just ranting with a keyboard?

Last edited by DSX; 03-04-2011 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Typos. iPhone fail
DSX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 08:22 AM   #18
Boost6924
 
Drives: 2SS/RS
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Indianapolis,IN
Posts: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX View Post
Go with a twin pump setup. Better yet, convert to return. BAPs put you on borrowed time in my opinion.
I agree 100%.
Boost6924 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 12:35 PM   #19
Sam88gta1
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS / 2006 CC Duramax
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rowlett
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX View Post
In other words, you'd ride the coat tails of somebody else's work because you can't do it yourself. Got it, you're a cheat. Just wanted to clear that up.
I'm well aware of what T1 is. T1 coupled with Yaw Power make up Injector Dynamics. That doesn't make T1 the one true distributor. Yaw is the production facility, T1 is the sales/distribution facility. I'm well aware of how it is all set up.
All you had to do for the data was post an Excel file for Paul and he would have had it in a matter of minutes for you. Instead, you chose to beat around the bush complain about how you've been waiting and waiting, yet haven't received anything. You just wanted a reason to complain.
Do it. Modify a stock LS3 injector and compare it to an ID850. When I say compare, I mean get the actual characterization data developed. It's just hype according to you, so it shouldn't be hard to get. I bet you could do it in your mom's basement!
You're already on the war path to plant seeds of doubt. Why not put your back into it instead of just ranting with a keyboard?
Its obviously you know nothing about the work I do.

You mad?
Sam88gta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 03:03 PM   #20
DSX
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 145
Nah, not mad at all. I have no financial stake in ID whatsoever. What work is that? Using other people's work and time to sell your replica? Sounds like that'd be your game plan.

The fact is, Paul offered to get you the data. You didn't do anything to help him give it to you. You just want to complain.
DSX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 03:39 PM   #21
IPS Brandon
 
IPS Brandon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS black
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 907
Send a message via AIM to IPS Brandon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX View Post
Gotta disagree with you on that one Brandon. Take a set of your injectors and get them characterized... I'd bank on them not being as controllable at low pulse width.

Anybody that says modding an OEM injector doesn't change the voltage offset and short pulse adder data is full of shit.
Geeze did I unleash a can of worms... (Dave give me a call on my cell some time )

What does everything think and ID injector is, unmodified lol... If you do not believe me call, ALL of the large injector dealers in the country, it is not worth a huge argument.

Here is my two sense - We prefer to use a LS9 modified injector (not just the tip is resized, like other national vendors such as magnacharger, vortech ect) because this injector offers the best spray pattern into the LS3 intake manifold available. The LS9 injector has a 6 hole tip ( LS3/LS7 have 4 hole tips and ID and others whom offer the same/similar injector have a single tip), the larger array of holes allows the injector to have better angular distribution the fuel spray. This is much more benefical in this particular situation because of the LS3's splayed intake manifold design where the injector is located, and the fact that the injector sits at a 30 degree angle. Using this particular injector cone allows the fuel to point in a better downward direction into the intake port and produces better spraty dorplet size to pass into the combustion chamber more efficently. For example a single tip injector such as example ID, or one of three other companies who sell the SAME injector for much less, does not work quite as well as the stream and droplet size is much to direct (picture a garden hose hitting a wall) into the angle that the injector sits in this manifold. This causes debris to build up around the injector tip as well as slighlty worse fuel distribution.
IPS Brandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 04:10 PM   #22
DSX
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2006 Z06
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPS Brandon View Post
Geeze did I unleash a can of worms... (Dave give me a call on my cell some time )

What does everything think and ID injector is, unmodified lol... If you do not believe me call, ALL of the large injector dealers in the country, it is not worth a huge argument.

Here is my two sense - We prefer to use a LS9 modified injector (not just the tip is resized, like other national vendors such as magnacharger, vortech ect) because this injector offers the best spray pattern into the LS3 intake manifold available. The LS9 injector has a 6 hole tip ( LS3/LS7 have 4 hole tips and ID and others whom offer the same/similar injector have a single tip), the larger array of holes allows the injector to have better angular distribution the fuel spray. This is much more benefical in this particular situation because of the LS3's splayed intake manifold design where the injector is located, and the fact that the injector sits at a 30 degree angle. Using this particular injector cone allows the fuel to point in a better downward direction into the intake port and produces better spraty dorplet size to pass into the combustion chamber more efficently. For example a single tip injector such as example ID, or one of three other companies who sell the SAME injector for much less, does not work quite as well as the stream and droplet size is much to direct (picture a garden hose hitting a wall) into the angle that the injector sits in this manifold. This causes debris to build up around the injector tip as well as slighlty worse fuel distribution.
That's cool... if they developed voltage offsets and short pulse data.

I'll bug you some time while I'm at work. That's when I'm not that busy. New baby... Yikes.
DSX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2011, 04:37 PM   #23
IPS Brandon
 
IPS Brandon's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS black
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 907
Send a message via AIM to IPS Brandon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX View Post
That's cool... if they developed voltage offsets and short pulse data.

I'll bug you some time while I'm at work. That's when I'm not that busy. New baby... Yikes.
They do, they come with the information needed
IPS Brandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 02:51 PM   #24
Paul Yaw
 
Drives: Horse
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPS Brandon View Post
Geeze did I unleash a can of worms... (Dave give me a call on my cell some time )

What does everything think and ID injector is, unmodified lol... If you do not believe me call, ALL of the large injector dealers in the country, it is not worth a huge argument.

Here is my two sense - We prefer to use a LS9 modified injector (not just the tip is resized, like other national vendors such as magnacharger, vortech ect) because this injector offers the best spray pattern into the LS3 intake manifold available. The LS9 injector has a 6 hole tip ( LS3/LS7 have 4 hole tips and ID and others whom offer the same/similar injector have a single tip), the larger array of holes allows the injector to have better angular distribution the fuel spray. This is much more benefical in this particular situation because of the LS3's splayed intake manifold design where the injector is located, and the fact that the injector sits at a 30 degree angle. Using this particular injector cone allows the fuel to point in a better downward direction into the intake port and produces better spraty dorplet size to pass into the combustion chamber more efficently. For example a single tip injector such as example ID, or one of three other companies who sell the SAME injector for much less, does not work quite as well as the stream and droplet size is much to direct (picture a garden hose hitting a wall) into the angle that the injector sits in this manifold. This causes debris to build up around the injector tip as well as slighlty worse fuel distribution.
You, or your supplier are measuring droplet size? Are you defining droplet size and spray pattern via the SAE standard, or otherwise?

Will you give us some numbers to quantify the difference between the two products?

Paul Yaw
Paul Yaw is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
V8 Camaro Performance Upgrades List Milk 1027 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 93 08-30-2021 05:56 PM
PWA "The Lounge" DGthe3 Off-topic Discussions 143773 11-06-2010 11:00 AM
Need help with a part number! Darkone Cosmetics and Lighting Modification Discussions 1 10-16-2010 08:50 AM
Aftermarket Cold air intake SSCamaro2010 Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 40 10-01-2010 02:32 PM
Dealer Installed Options firehawk1 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 5 04-18-2009 07:17 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.