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Old 09-10-2014, 06:24 PM   #43
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FE2 = V6 10-15
FE3 = 10-11 SS coupe and 10-15 SS convertibles
FE4 = 12-15 SS coupe
FE5 = ZL1
FE6 = 1LE
FEA = Z28

V6 models require a rear brake upgrade for the FE4+ rear sway bar upgrade.

10-11 SS models require 2012+ rear lower control arms and rear GM or DSE endlinks for the FE4 upgrade.

ALL 2012+ models have the updated rear lower control arms to accommodate for FE4+ sway bars

12-15 Convertibles can upgrade to FE4+ with an FE4+ style rear bar and rear GM or DSE endlinks. (10-11 will require the rear lower control arms as well)

Hope this clears a few things up. As always; I'm always happy to answer questions. Feel free to call PM or email me anytime!

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Old 09-10-2014, 06:33 PM   #44
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Well you cleared that all up for us Tyler. Thanks.

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Old 02-07-2015, 09:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by detroitspeed View Post
We have some new weight comparisons with the new front DSE anti-roll bar for electric power steering compared to a factory 2013 1LE bar:

1LE Front ARB with brackets and bushings = 15.1lbs.
DSE Front ARB with brackets and bushings = 9.2 lbs.

Here is the weight comparison for the rear DSE anti-roll bar:

1LE Rear ARB with brackets and bushings = 18.1 lbs.
DSE Rear ARB with brackets and bushings = 13.7 lbs.

That is a weight savings of 10.3 lbs. So with the DSE front and rear anti-roll bar you can have an adjustable bar with more rate and shed some pounds as well!





I have a 1LE. What are the increases rate/stiffness for the Detroit Speed rear bar vs. the 1LE bar for each setting. I always see the SS comparison but I know the 1LE has a stiffer bar. Just want to know if there will be a noticeable improvement for AutoCross.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:25 PM   #46
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I have a 1LE. What are the increases rate/stiffness for the Detroit Speed rear bar vs. the 1LE bar for each setting. I always see the SS comparison but I know the 1LE has a stiffer bar. Just want to know if there will be a noticeable improvement for AutoCross.
Ditch your 1LE front bar and install a SS front bar. You are good to go
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Old 02-09-2015, 02:21 AM   #47
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Ditch your 1LE front bar and install a SS front bar. You are good to go
Stock SS front and Zl1 rear.
This is what I have, as recommended by you Pete. Sadly I haven't had an opportunity to test.
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:58 PM   #48
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Ditch your 1LE front bar and install a SS front bar. You are good to go
Wait, this from the guy who developed the 1LE permagrin package with a stiffer 32mm rear bar. I'm confused?????

Why softer front vs. stiffer rear? Please explain.
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:12 AM   #49
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Wait, this from the guy who developed the 1LE permagrin package with a stiffer 32mm rear bar. I'm confused?????

Why softer front vs. stiffer rear? Please explain.
Permagrin 27mm front bar 32mm rear bar 5mm difference front to rear.

SS 23mm front bar 1LE 28mm rear bar difference front to rear 4.5mm Permagrin Jr.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:31 AM   #50
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Permagrin 27mm front bar 32mm rear bar 5mm difference front to rear.

SS 23mm front bar 1LE 28mm rear bar difference front to rear 4.5mm Permagrin Jr.
Why wouldn't I get the Permagrin Sr.? With the 1LE I have the 27mm front bar. In F Street Autocross I get to change 1 bar. Instead going down in size in front to match the SS (where that car can get a 28mm bar in rear) shouldn't I take advantage of stiffening my rear bar having bigger bars than the SS? Or are you saying it is no advantage to moving to the stiffer bar on the rear of the 1LE?
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:04 PM   #51
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As you can see I own a 2013 ss. You are saying in post #51 that I would benefit from simply putting a 1LE rear sway for a better balanced street car? If so, that is really cost effective!
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:25 PM   #52
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As you can see I own a 2013 ss. You are saying in post #51 that I would benefit from simply putting a 1LE rear sway for a better balanced street car? If so, that is really cost effective!
Dirt cheap. I think GM retail is $180 for the rear bar.
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Old 02-24-2015, 09:44 PM   #53
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What about body roll on a setup like that?

Also, and I hope I'm way off here, but you mentioned people may disconnect the front swaybar for tight autox to get the most front stick. But what about slip angle? Or are the speeds too slow? It almost gives the impression that you have the most grip with nothing, and to reduce understeer by going with a stiffer rear SB, are you just reducing the rear grip relative to the front? I know that can't be the case or else AM sways would be smaller instead of bigger, What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the "why". Take for example the Hotchkis sport setup.. 200-something percent stiffer front, yet the rear only goes up to 170% stiffer? And that provides more neutral handling? How?
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:07 PM   #54
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What about body roll on a setup like that?

Also, and I hope I'm way off here, but you mentioned people may disconnect the front swaybar for tight autox to get the most front stick. But what about slip angle? Or are the speeds too slow? It almost gives the impression that you have the most grip with nothing, and to reduce understeer by going with a stiffer rear SB, are you just reducing the rear grip relative to the front? I know that can't be the case or else AM sways would be smaller instead of bigger, What I'm trying to wrap my head around is the "why". Take for example the Hotchkis sport setup.. 200-something percent stiffer front, yet the rear only goes up to 170% stiffer? And that provides more neutral handling? How?
I have been hesitant to reply due to market place correctness. In the example you mention, understeer will be increased. Many suspension companies brought out similar bar sets and then began to revise them for improved performance. I have been a big rear / smaller front bar guy since day one for the Camaro with our first bar sets 27mm front and 32mm rear. Why? Because it worked.

Suspension tuning is a zero sum game. Better handling through higher damping, sway bar or spring rates has a corresponding drop in ride comfort. If we are not changing the tire contact patch to improve handling we are in a zero sum game with total traction. In an automobile like a Camaro with heavy understeer properties, where the rear IRS is superior to the virtual pivot front, to reduce understeer we do what we can to increase front grip and also reduce rear grip.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:43 PM   #55
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Sway Bars
With these foundational elements (sub-frame inserts or full bushes and radius / tension inserts or bushes) in place your Camaro is ready for the final tuning element. Pedders Solution A 27mm front bar will reduce body lean and roll resulting in a more enjoyable drive for the vast majority of Camaro drivers. We call Solution A the Daily Driver. Driving down the highway and moderately sport speed turns there is less body lean and roll. Driven past 7/10s there is a noticeable increase in understeer. For the many Camaro owners upgrading the front bar with radius and sub-frame bush inserts are the ONLY modifications they will ever need or want.

For the more sporting Camaro driver a set of 27mm front and 32mm rear bars are the solution. This is our updated Solution B. Solution B creates a well balanced 5th Gen with a bias to oversteer. With the front bar set to full soft and the rear bar set to full hard your 5th Gen is track ready. You wanted oversteer. You got it now. In the rain, cold weather and snow these sway bar settings create a very loose car and must be driven with caution. Respect it. If your driving skills are not NASA or SCCA levels, tone the bars down. Set the front bar to full hard and the rear bar to full soft. As you grow comfortable with the new balance of your Camaro move the front bar a hole to the soft side. That is the beauty of Solution B. Solution B puts you in control of your setup from well balanced daily driver to track ready. I read THE BOOK.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:14 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I have been hesitant to reply due to market place correctness. In the example you mention, understeer will be increased. Many suspension companies brought out similar bar sets and then began to revise them for improved performance. I have been a big rear / smaller front bar guy since day one for the Camaro with our first bar sets 27mm front and 32mm rear. Why? Because it worked.

Suspension tuning is a zero sum game. Better handling through higher damping, sway bar or spring rates has a corresponding drop in ride comfort. If we are not changing the tire contact patch to improve handling we are in a zero sum game with total traction. In an automobile like a Camaro with heavy understeer properties, where the rear IRS is superior to the virtual pivot front, to reduce understeer we do what we can to increase front grip and also reduce rear grip.
Heh, fair enough. I was a little tired while writing that, re-reading it now is kind of embarrassing. But I get what you're saying about it being zero sum. I suppose I was likening it too much to my R/C touring car racing days. Lots of similarities, but still not exactly the same. Anyway, thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.
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