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Old 01-28-2010, 05:49 PM   #1
thekid96
 
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Top Mount Decision- TVS2300, KB, Whipple

I have decided to put a top mount SC on my LS3 Camaro for several reasons including available off-idle torque, stock-like idle and driveability, durability and lack of a front mount inter cooler that obstructs air flow to the cooling system. The engine will retain stock heads and cam while upgrading the valvetrain will be an option, at least for now. Mods include ARH 1 7/8 headers w/ hi flow cats and CAI intake. This car will run on crap 91 pump gas and not depend on meth as it will be my daily driver. Aside from daily driving, this car will also be driven hard in the canyons and see some autocross and HPDE. Given these needs I do have concerns about operating and IAT's for prolonged high RPM use.

From what I can gather, my current top mount options are the TVS2300 and Kenne Bell 2.8, with the Whipple soon to be released. I have seen plenty of results from the TVS which seems to be the only real proven option. However, I don't want to spend the $7K on the TVS and decide I should have gone twin screw down the road.

So with that in mind, here are my questions for the SC supliers. And of course I am looking for substantive answers based on actual data, not opinions. I will fill in the blanks as the manufacturers chime in.

What kind of rwhp can I expect on 91 octane pump gas?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

What kind of rwt can I expect on 91 octane pump gas?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

Are any other supporting mods needed to achieve the above numbers?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

Is the kit CARB legal, and if not, when will it be?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

What kind of intake air temperatures can I expect with prolonged aggressive driving such as a 30 minute track session at 90 degrees?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

How will the SC affect water and oil temps in the above conditions?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

What kind of maintenance does the SC require?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

Will the system fit under the stock hood without modification?
Magnuson:
Kenne Bell:
Whipple:

Thanks for the input, and hopefully making my decision easier.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:33 PM   #2
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:03 AM   #3
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You may want to add the Harrop HTV1900 to your list as well.

on another note, if you don't plan to build a forged engine, and run high boost levels (over 10 psi) I doubt that you would ever see the differences between twin screws or the HTV1900 or TVS2300.

In other words, at a similar boost level ( 7-9psi) all of those blowers are going to behave similarly, and make similar power.

I would be happy to provide more data,
Just shoot me a PM

Ed
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:27 AM   #4
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Good questions!! I'm curious my self. I'm currently waiting for a price on the KB from Livernois. I already have a quote from them on the Maggie. I having a very hard time making the decision!! I have to choose so I can just get it done. They have a nice combo of goodies with the Maggie to get me to the 640-650 rwhp on pump gas. I think the Maggie looks great installed but not sure how much I like the rear inlet on the KB.....
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:45 AM   #5
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right there with ya, but i'm bringing my own popcorn and another cuz this aught to be good
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:00 PM   #6
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I will gather some info for the KB, and post it up for you so you can fill in your blanks. Some of your questions wont really be able to be "Honestly" answered as of yet, simply due to the fact that there isnt sufficient data to support some of the questions, unless we base it off of other applications.

That being said, Ill be more than hapy to see if I can get you a test drive in uor tuse car in Rancho Cucamonga. Or, if your in Vegas, we'll let you take our 2010 on a spirited test drive. Ill even plug in the data logger so you can view the parameters.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:16 PM   #7
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I understand some, or most of this data won't be available immediately. My hope is that the top mount manufacturers can collect data as testing progresses and post up results in this thread. This will help myself, and hopefully others, make an educated decision based on good data as opposed to banter.
My personal goal is to have the blower on my car by June so I have some time to look at results, durability, etc.
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I will gather some info for the KB, and post it up for you so you can fill in your blanks. Some of your questions wont really be able to be "Honestly" answered as of yet, simply due to the fact that there isnt sufficient data to support some of the questions, unless we base it off of other applications.

That being said, Ill be more than hapy to see if I can get you a test drive in uor tuse car in Rancho Cucamonga. Or, if your in Vegas, we'll let you take our 2010 on a spirited test drive. Ill even plug in the data logger so you can view the parameters.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:09 PM   #8
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Or, if your in Vegas, we'll let you take our 2010 on a spirited test drive. Ill even plug in the data logger so you can view the parameters.

I'll be in Las Vegas this May.

Does that mean I can check out a KB'd Camaro when I'm there?
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:29 PM   #9
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Yessir..

By that time our 434" Stroker (Using an RHS Race Block, and AllPro LSW heads) powered Camaro with the 3.6lc will be running.
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I'll be in Las Vegas this May.

Does that mean I can check out a KB'd Camaro when I'm there?
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:24 PM   #10
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I was looking at the dyno graph on KB's website and noticed that torque and HP intersect at around 6,200rpm even the stock graph. All others I recall intersect
at 5,200. Why?
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:21 PM   #11
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All graphs should cross at 5250 due to the Horsepower calculation. If it crosses anywhere else, then there is a scale issue or an error.
Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5250. Horsepower isn't real. It is a calculation based on torque.

Dean
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Last edited by bilydean; 01-29-2010 at 08:23 PM. Reason: add more clarification
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:47 PM   #12
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well, you are partially correct..

The calculation is based off of rpm at 5252. BUT, the horsepower is NOT wrong in any way, shape or form.

It is the sid to side scaling of the chart. It has ZERO to do with the horsepower calculation. That is hard loaded into the hardware stack of the dyno system, and cant able to be modified.

If you look at the graph itself, the max value on the torque side is 700. The max value on the horsepower side is 600. By doing this, it just makes them cross at a goofy rpm, but has nothing to do with the numbers themselves. The graph is nothing more than hundreds of individual data points, made to have the visual look of a lined graph. But this graph is not an aid in the calculation of the power.

**EDIT* I thought you were saying the horsepower in the graph wasn't real. Now I realize you mean that HP isnt real, its just a mathmatical calculation.. So you are 100% correct, not partialy correct. **EDIT**

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilydean View Post
All graphs should cross at 5250 due to the Horsepower calculation. If it crosses anywhere else, then there is a scale issue or an error.
Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5250. Horsepower isn't real. It is a calculation based on torque.

Dean
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Total_Perf_Eng View Post
well, you are partially correct..

The calculation is based off of rpm at 5252. BUT, the horsepower is NOT wrong in any way, shape or form.

It is the sid to side scaling of the chart. It has ZERO to do with the horsepower calculation. That is hard loaded into the hardware stack of the dyno system, and cant able to be modified.

If you look at the graph itself, the max value on the torque side is 700. The max value on the horsepower side is 600. By doing this, it just makes them cross at a goofy rpm, but has nothing to do with the numbers themselves. The graph is nothing more than hundreds of individual data points, made to have the visual look of a lined graph. But this graph is not an aid in the calculation of the power.

**EDIT* I thought you were saying the horsepower in the graph wasn't real. Now I realize you mean that HP isnt real, its just a mathmatical calculation.. So you are 100% correct, not partialy correct. **EDIT**
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:52 PM   #14
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Your point about NOT wanting a front mount intercooler to interfere with engine system cooling isn't going to happen. At least not with Magncharger. The Maggie kit comes with the air to water intercooler mounted ahead of the factory radiator. All these blowers have some form of intercooling and you need and want it. Whether air to air OR air to water it is going to be up front where there is cool air and to a degree will affect engine cooling airflow. If you are going to do 30 minute track events I highly suggest you add high capacity race radiator, add better tranny cooler, add differential cooler, etc. Also, these factory brembo brakes are dog poop on a closed circuit so a big upgrade needed there as well. Good Luck
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