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Old 10-26-2011, 02:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Raptor626 View Post
I'm actually in the same boat as another member on here. I can't decide which to go with, ARH or Kooks.
Please check out LG SuperPro headers. After wasting 3-4 months researching headers....these were my final choice. No other header puts down more Torque(that I know of, or was the case as of 3 months ago). Highly under promoted here, but have been a staple to the vette community(also LS3 at one time) for years
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Rage View Post
Please check out LG SuperPro headers. After wasting 3-4 months researching headers....these were my final choice. No other header puts down more Torque(that I know of, or was the case as of 3 months ago). Highly under promoted here, but have been a staple to the vette community(also LS3 at one time) for years
Yes, I know LG and their reputation very well. However, I don't think the quality of their headers is on par with that of Kooks, who's been making them for decades. Also, I believe the Kooks stepped headers make more power than even the LG's.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Raptor626 View Post
Yes, I know LG and their reputation very well. However, I don't think the quality of their headers is on par with that of Kooks, who's been making them for decades. Also, I believe the Kooks stepped headers make more power than even the LG's.
I will find the info to dispute your claim...... cuz I have it. Gimme a little while. I have seen SW, kooks, Bassani, LG, and others I'm sure I've forgotten about.... most look fantastic. LG are the ONLY ones with the power spike and the merge collector. As for the quality of LG, what makes you say they are not on par?....welds? composition? fit? You will be happy with almost any choice you make, just dont be a fanboy of one set over the other..... until you have seen dyno proof. Hell... until 2 weeks before I had my build mapped out, I was going with SW full 3" set. LG won hands down. Airflow, performance, torque especially. Good luck in your research
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rage View Post
I will find the info to dispute your claim...... cuz I have it. Gimme a little while. I have seen SW, kooks, Bassani, LG, and others I'm sure I've forgotten about.... most look fantastic. LG are the ONLY ones with the power spike and the merge collector. As for the quality of LG, what makes you say they are not on par?....welds? composition? fit? You will be happy with almost any choice you make, just dont be a fanboy of one set over the other..... until you have seen dyno proof. Hell... until 2 weeks before I had my build mapped out, I was going with SW full 3" set. LG won hands down. Airflow, performance, torque especially. Good luck in your research


From a video I saw on YouTube, the LG's made 427rw. A dyno sheet on MaryLandSpeed's website shows the Kooks making 426 and change. It would appear that they are very evenly matched.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Raptor626 View Post
From a video I saw on YouTube, the LG's made 427rw. A dyno sheet on MaryLandSpeed's website shows the Kooks making 426 and change. It would appear that they are very evenly matched.
Agreed..... now check the torque. As in my first post... no other header that I know of puts down more torque. So LG 1 7/8 will put down same rwhp as much more expensive stepped headers.... and my guess is they outperform stepped in the torque category.
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Old 10-26-2011, 07:28 PM   #34
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I go to the track every week so added power means alot when the light turns green and there is a Mudstain in the other lane! I listen to the expert( Brandon at MS) and have no regrets, very happy. The rest of the system from the cats back is also awsome.
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Old 10-26-2011, 08:56 PM   #35
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I go to the track every week so added power means alot when the light turns green and there is a Mudstain in the other lane! I listen to the expert( Brandon at MS) and have no regrets, very happy. The rest of the system from the cats back is also awsome.
Nobody is disputing the power gains....... what I am disputing is the gains of stepped headers vs. LG SuperPro LT's with their collector. There is no disrespect to any manufacturer in my posts... just passing info that may be useful to someone looking for headers without the budget for stepped headers. As for the track..... Thats why I went LG, more torque down low..... I made 449/459 on a conservative Mustang dyno, with the mods in my sig. I personally know a few people who cant touch that torque with equal, if not more mods.......
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:58 PM   #36
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This whole thing is getting silly. First off, comparing a manufactuers dyno claims on a different car to what we got...and saying Look..one made 426 rwhp but this one made 427, so it must be better is silly. We have seen in our shop that different cars with the same mods can vary 10-15 rwhp.

We sell Kooks, and LG's. My experiance has been that people tend to push what they have on their car because obviously they think the made the same choice. Vendors are also guilty of this also to an extent, pushing the brands they like the most. LG makes a good header..however it is not 8-10 HP or some magical amount of TQ better than any other header on the market here.

With our stepped header, we ran the dyno the same day, on the same car, with no tuning at play. The car had Kooks 1 7/8" headers on it. We did three dyno runs, and posted them. Then we put the ebay headers on, and did 3 dyno runs, and posted them. Lastly, we put the stepped headers on, and did 3 dyno runs. Now when we did this, the headers were in the prototype stage. I had ZERO commitment to them, other than the one set in the test. To make them, Kooks wanted an order for 30, which given their price is a huge finacial commitment on my end. Honestly, if they did not work, I would have NEVER put them in production and chalked it up as a learning experiance. Additionally, I would not sell them unless I had tested them enough to be sure the results were real, and repeatable. Last thing it would make sense for me to do is bring a product to market that costs several hundred dollars more than what is already there, and sell them based on a BS, cooked the books test. In other markets (plus the Camaro ones we have sold), stepped header results have been repeatable for us. Some will discount them because of the cost, extra production time, whatever...but they flat out work, and we use them on every car we race.

Our shop Camaro has a TVS2300 on it, LPE GT9 Blower cam, 3.4 Pulley, and made 637rwhp and 595 ft/lb of TQ on a fairly basic tune. This is with 1 3/4" stepped to 1 7/8" Kooks, high flow cats, all hooked to a 2.5" Borla Stinger exhaust. If you listen to the the "OMGZ you need 2" headers and 3" exhaust on you stock Camaro crowd, this is a terrible, clownshoes set up...however with exhaust, you always want the smallest diameter tubing that can effectivly flow the maximum exhaust output of the engine.

Now back to the LG debate..LG makes a good header..I am not doubting that..however things have to be compared accuratly.

Kooks also has a merge collector on their headers, and a patented merge spike. LG's are known for making more TQ in the Corvette market because they use a design with much longer primaries, which builds TQ. For instance, a LG C6 header is on average about 8" longer than a Kooks C6 Corvette header. This however DOES NOT carry over to the Camaro market, where LG and Kooks headers have almost identical primary lengths due to the need to accomodate a cat between the collector, and first bend of the catback. You can't add an extra 8" of primary in there. Now I am not saying that LG is a bad header they make a very good header. However the collector, and primary length is near identical to Kooks, and there is not anything there that is going to make 8-10 more rwph than a Kooks header on the dyno with the same vehicle. If LG did have a power advantage, it would be because their systems require a full 3" X-pipe, which is basically replacing everything but the mufflers and tips, where Kooks hook right up to the stock X-pipe. The X-pipe does however make LG's more expensive.

I guess what I am saying here is..Kooks and LG 1 7/8" headers are good products that will make very similar power. However is an LG 1 7/8" header a cheap subsitute for a Kooks Stepped header? No..because first off, due to the full x-pipe, they are not cheaper, and secondly, a well designed stepped header has flow advantages that cannot be duplicated with a straight header. The smaller primary pressurizes the exhaust gas, and keeps it moving at a higher velocity in the lower RPM range allowing you to build TQ and power faster than a straight 1 7/8" header. Think of it like a hose..the water moves faster out when you pich it a little. However pinch it too much, and you hurt flow. Properly designing a stepped header is that balance. In this case, the exhaust port on the header is less than 1 5/8". With the Kooks stepped header, the first 6" of primary is 1 3/4" to keep the exhaust has compressed/pressurize so it moves faster. Then you have another 18"+ of primary is 1 7/8" to flow the higher exhaust gas volume at the upper RPM's effectivly, just like a standard 1 7/8" header. It's the best of both worlds.

Last edited by MarylandSpeed; 10-26-2011 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:19 PM   #37
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FWIW, here is LG's dyno they have posted on their website..next to the Kooks signature series dyno And again..I want to reinterate..I am not saying LG is a bad header. I am disputing that is is somehow a cheaper subsitute for Kooks stepped headers.

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Old 10-27-2011, 12:09 AM   #38
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Brandon, I'll be calling you tomorrow night (assuming you're still working late again ) to place the order for the Kooks stepped headers. Let me know what time is best to call you.
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:39 AM   #39
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In my opinion, I think its a personal preference which header you buy. My uncle has Kooks stepped headers with Corsa and I have LG's full system. Both are high quality and both put down with in 2 WHP of each other on the same day. We have Identical mods with exception of Headers. His baseline was was a little higher than mine but when tuned, my motor seemed to have a better gains for some reason. I beleive that every motor is not created equally and for us to say that One header will consistently put down more power is crazy. Again its a personal preference and just buy the one you like the best.
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Old 10-27-2011, 02:13 AM   #40
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Brandon, I'll be calling you tomorrow night (assuming you're still working late again ) to place the order for the Kooks stepped headers. Let me know what time is best to call you.
I always work late..just shoot me a PM when you are on
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:05 AM   #41
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Maryland Speed: Doin it right since 2002 (when is when I started being a loyal customer)

I'm not one to hug and kiss the behind of a vendor, but these guys are the best. Period. Haven't steered me wrong, ever. Especially on this stepped header setup.


PS - still waiting for the FI setup :P
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:05 PM   #42
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Maryland Speed: Doin it right since 2002 (when is when I started being a loyal customer)

I'm not one to hug and kiss the behind of a vendor, but these guys are the best. Period. Haven't steered me wrong, ever. Especially on this stepped header setup.


PS - still waiting for the FI setup :P
I know. They're legit, which is why I trust their claims.
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