WHAT TO DO?! Dealer drilled license plate bracket into bumper!

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

I'd be pissed, I'm not even sure what I'd do. Hope you get it all figured out...

[97SS]

Originally Posted by SSBUSDRVR

Did you accept sign and accept delivery on car? Tell them to keep it and wait for another. Wouldn't care if it took 6 months or more to get another.
."

Exactly.

Originally Posted by SSBUSDRVR

Not true in some States.
We lived in Nevada with a front plate requirement but it is not required nor is dealer required to install bracket unless car comes from factory stock with such bracket/attachment hardware.

"If the motor vehicle was not manufactured to include a bracket, device or other contrivance to display and secure a front license plate, and if the manufacturer of the motor vehicle provided no other means or method by which a front license plate may be displayed upon and secured to the motor vehicle: (a) One license plate must be attached to the motor vehicle in the rear; and (b) The other license plate may, at the option of the owner of the vehicle, be attached to the motor vehicle in the front."

Sounds like you're reading that in-correctly. They are stipulating two things, at once. If your was not MFG'd with a bracket (camaro comes with a front license bracket), and if the MFG provides no other means or method by which a front license plate may be displayed upon and secured to the motor vehicle (again, if the dealer did not install the plate or if there is no bracket for a front license plate).

Again, laws are different in every state.

[oldfriend]

Just shoot the guy who did that [ paint balls ] only , for now .

[jmaynard]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

The prep guy made a mistake, after all he is human.

I disagree with you on this. This was not a mistake. it was a delivertate attempt at free advertising at gthe expense of the new owner. These is NO EXCUSE for any dealer to make ANY modifictions to a new car until the owner has asked for it. The car is on loan to the dealer in most cases from the factory, but in this case that does not even apply as the car was ordered specifically for this customer.

I would not accept it. Ask them to locate another one with your build specifications and if they cannot contact GM Customer Service. They do have the ability to replace off the line for dealer mistakes. You might have to wait a couple weeks, but it should not take much longer than that. And I would ask to use another dealer for final delivery. No reason this crappy dealer should reap the benefits of the sale.

[jmaynard]

[QUOTE=2012ZL1;5363538]

Originally Posted by 97SS

From what I was told by the dealerships, is that it is there responsibility to install the front license, since it is illegal to not run one. Basically, if its not installed and you get a ticket, you can throw it back onto to the dealership, since it was never install. QUOTE]

Nope. Its your car. Dealer has no obligations to put licence plate frame on. That is just dealer B.S.

Maybe in Canada, but nowhere in the US is the dealer required to modify a manufacturers car. In fact, doing so is unethical. If the manufacturer wanted a front plate attached, they would have put it on at the factory. Since they did not, it is up the the owner, and the dealership never owns the car, to either put it on or not. The owner does have a right to request it be intsalled by the dealer, but the dealer has no right to randomly install it. They distroyed a factory automobile.

[Jetcop20]

Illinois is a front plate state..I'm a newly retired policeman( having lots of fun riding my Harley's and driving my newest GO FAST CAR) The dealership does not HAVE TO do anything in regards to drilling out that front bumper for a plate holder...my last KOOL Dodge B5 blue SRT8 was delivered NO holes..my 2012 Camaro also..(see Avatar).and so forth....tell that dealer to "BITE ME" and walk away OR ??? Have a great day. As with many things in life not all are ABSOLUTES

[97SS]

[QUOTE=jmaynard;5363994]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Maybe in Canada, but nowhere in the US is the dealer required to modify a manufacturers car. In fact, doing so is unethical. If the manufacturer wanted a front plate attached, they would have put it on at the factory. Since they did not, it is up the the owner, and the dealership never owns the car, to either put it on or not. The owner does have a right to request it be intsalled by the dealer, but the dealer has no right to randomly install it. They distroyed a factory automobile.

Modify a MFG'd car? Does that even make sense to you? You need to read the law, and my thread. The reason why the MFG's do not install the plate, is because laws vary from state to state. Hence, why they leave the bracket in the vehicle. Again, these are facts and a friend who is a part owner in a Honda dealership, has lost this battle several times in court. Purely based off the customers ignorance, and theres in regards to the law. All the customer has to state is " I didn't know, and it wasn't there". As a business, you have to live by the "worst case" scenario basis. Especially with everyone and there Mom's, trying to sue, for even the smallest things.

Read this link:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5250734_u_...se-plates.html

"State by State

• Certain states such as California, Ohio, Iowa, Washington, Maryland and Massachusetts require their drivers to post both a front and rear license plate on their cars and even make it illegal for car dealers to sell a new car without a license plate bracket on the front bumper. Others, like Arizona and Kansas, issue two plates but make rear display required and front display optional. Most other states issue only a single plate for the rear of the vehicle.
  This variety of laws from state to state has caused numerous complaints by travelers who display a single rear plate but are frequently stopped by law enforcement in states where both plates are required. If your vehicle is properly licensed in its home state, you cannot be cited in another state for not having a front plate, however.
  States that require a front plate report a higher incidence of traffic violations reported by infrared cameras at urban intersections and toll booths."
  
  

[yoshie]

1.live Calif its the "LAW" but signed wavier I told my dealer would not purchase car or they had to fix and repaint bumper.Dealer told me no problem we do not put front plates on camaros, corvetes, or ctsv. Sorry for problem,none of my cars run front plates.Don't care about the law.

[Inferno]

@ $65 for the car I'd refuse delivery and make em order you another. You know every time you drive the car it will piss you off that they screwed up/

[hognutz]

[QUOTE=97SS;5364026]

Originally Posted by jmaynard

Modify a MFG'd car? Does that even make sense to you? You need to read the law, and my thread. The reason why the MFG's do not install the plate, is because laws vary from state to state. Hence, why they leave the bracket in the vehicle. Again, these are facts and a friend who is a part owner in a Honda dealership, has lost this battle several times in court. Purely based off the customers ignorance, and theres in regards to the law. All the customer has to state is " I didn't know, and it wasn't there". As a business, you have to live by the "worst case" scenario basis. Especially with everyone and there Mom's, trying to sue, for even the smallest things.

Read this link:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5250734_u_...se-plates.html

"State by State

• Certain states such as California, Ohio, Iowa, Washington, Maryland and Massachusetts require their drivers to post both a front and rear license plate on their cars and even make it illegal for car dealers to sell a new car without a license plate bracket on the front bumper. Others, like Arizona and Kansas, issue two plates but make rear display required and front display optional. Most other states issue only a single plate for the rear of the vehicle.
  This variety of laws from state to state has caused numerous complaints by travelers who display a single rear plate but are frequently stopped by law enforcement in states where both plates are required. If your vehicle is properly licensed in its home state, you cannot be cited in another state for not having a front plate, however.
  States that require a front plate report a higher incidence of traffic violations reported by infrared cameras at urban intersections and toll booths."
  
  

different dealerships have differnt policies. I have ordered more than one car and left the delarship without a front plate or a bracket drilled into the front.

If you will notice the car I just sold is absent a front plate. it was a califoria car then it came to oregon.

the car never had front plate. the dealership that sold the car never put one on.

[adamgl]

Originally Posted by yoshie

1.live Calif its the "LAW" but signed wavier I told my dealer would not purchase car or they had to fix and repaint bumper.Dealer told me no problem we do not put front plates on camaros, corvetes, or ctsv. Sorry for problem,none of my cars run front plates.Don't care about the law.

+1 The law is stupid. Most police around here let it go. It just ruins the look and even the aero of the front of the car.

[mmarx82]

First off, sorry dude for that happening to the car you ordered. I personally would tell them you don't want the car now that they screwed up and I would find my car else where. My dealer broke our deal and I ended up having to do the same thing although mine wasn't for the license plate.

Originally Posted by 97SS

Modify a MFG'd car? Does that even make sense to you? You need to read the law, and my thread. The reason why the MFG's do not install the plate, is because laws vary from state to state. Hence, why they leave the bracket in the vehicle. Again, these are facts and a friend who is a part owner in a Honda dealership, has lost this battle several times in court. Purely based off the customers ignorance, and theres in regards to the law. All the customer has to state is " I didn't know, and it wasn't there". As a business, you have to live by the "worst case" scenario basis. Especially with everyone and there Mom's, trying to sue, for even the smallest things.

Read this link:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5250734_u_...se-plates.html

"State by State

• Certain states such as California, Ohio, Iowa, Washington, Maryland and Massachusetts require their drivers to post both a front and rear license plate on their cars and even make it illegal for car dealers to sell a new car without a license plate bracket on the front bumper. Others, like Arizona and Kansas, issue two plates but make rear display required and front display optional. Most other states issue only a single plate for the rear of the vehicle.
  This variety of laws from state to state has caused numerous complaints by travelers who display a single rear plate but are frequently stopped by law enforcement in states where both plates are required. If your vehicle is properly licensed in its home state, you cannot be cited in another state for not having a front plate, however.
  States that require a front plate report a higher incidence of traffic violations reported by infrared cameras at urban intersections and toll booths."

97SS, I've been trying to ignore your posts because all you want to do is argue with others about "The law" when your reference is not from a legal website. Anyone can post on ehow (http://www.ehow.com/how_4913937_beco...ng-writer.html) so I would say find a different source from a legal website or find the actual laws. My wife is also a LEO and our state does not make people have front license plates thank god! However, at worst it may be illegal for dealers to sell a car without a front license plate bracket for states that require it. However, it will not be illegal for the dealer to not install the bracket. It will be illegal for the car owner to not have it mounted on the front of the car for states that require it.


Here is California law, as you can see a dealer only has to supply the means to mount the plate:

V C Section 11713.17 Front License Plate Bracket
Front License Plate Bracket
11713.17. (a) Following the retail sale or lease of a motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, a dealer may not deliver the motor vehicle unless either of the following occurs:

(1) The motor vehicle is equipped with a bracket or other means of securing a front license plate.

(2) The dealer obtains a signed written acknowledgment from the person taking delivery of the motor vehicle acknowledging both of the following:

(A) The person expressly refused installation of a bracket or other means of securing the front license plate.

(B) The person understands that California law requires a license plate to be displayed from and securely fastened to the front of the motor vehicle and that the hardware necessary to securely fasten the front plate is available from the dealer.

(b) A manufacturer or distributor may not sell or distribute in this state a new motor vehicle for which the department issues two license plates, unless that motor vehicle is equipped or provided with a bracket or other means of securing the license plates.

[sspddmn]

Originally Posted by 97SS

Another Camaro5 Member thats like to post assumptions, rather then look up actual facts. It is is legal requirement/responsibility, for the Dealerships to install the factory front license bracket, for the states that require a visible front plate. Just like a dealership cannot sell a vehicle with window tint (State of California), with you signing a disclosure knowing its illegal or removing it. Not saying, it won't happen or the possibility of getting them not to, however, you can hold them responsible - if you do get a ticket. This has happen several of times in the past, with a family friend, who owns a dealership. Each time, he has had to cover the cost of the fix-it ticket. Do you really think Dealerships, would pay there techs, for something not needed? Come on, be real.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5250734_u_...se-plates.html


Again, I feel your pain. It's your option, to live with it. However, keep in mind, when you take delivery of a vehicle. You sign papers stating your satisfication with its condition. Again, to protect the dealership, in regards to dings, scratches etc., that are found afterwards. Of course, on a case by case situation, the dealership can be understanding and grant for it to be fixed. However, legally, they can tell you kick rocks. This is of course, if you have already signed the paperwork, and taken possesion of the car.

Normal? I don't think so. There are whole lot of other things in this world, to worry about, then two small holes for a front license plate. Get real.


You wouldn't be the first L.E.O I've met, who didn't know his or her State law's correctly. No hard feelings.

First off 97SS your're an idiot for using ehow as your point of reference. I have the California Criminal Code and Vehcile Code in front of me as I post this and there is no law requiring car dealerships to mount a front license plate bracket. The law requires the owner/operator to have a front license plate on and the responsiblity falls on the registered owner of the vehicle.

Here is the California Vehicle Code right off the DMV website: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d05/vc11713_17.htm

If you read it states "either of the following must occur" in which case I chose #2

Secondly you don't know who I am so don't insult me and presume I don't know my job. Next time do your research and get your facts straight before you tell people that its the law. Oh yeah, and no hard feeling you moron.

Originally Posted by mmarx82

First off, sorry dude for that happening to the car you ordered. I personally would tell them you don't want the car now that they screwed up and I would find my car else where. My dealer broke our deal and I ended up having to do the same thing although mine wasn't for the license plate.



97SS, I've been trying to ignore your posts because all you want to do is argue with others about "The law" when your reference is not from a legal website. Anyone can post on ehow (http://www.ehow.com/how_4913937_beco...ng-writer.html) so I would say find a different source from a legal website or find the actual laws. My wife is also a LEO and our state does not make people have front license plates thank god! However, at worst it may be illegal for dealers to sell a car without a front license plate bracket for states that require it. However, it will not be illegal for the dealer to not install the bracket. It will be illegal for the car owner to not have it mounted on the front of the car for states that require it.


Here is California law, as you can see a dealer only has to supply the means to mount the plate:

mmarx, thank you for helping me prove my point. Thanks to everyone here as well for your opinions and input.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by sspddmn

So when I first contacted this dealership (a courtesy delivery) the first thing I asked sales manager "A" was not to put the license plate bracket on the car. He assures me that they will not because they don't put them on the camaros or corvettes. So when i went to visit my car tonight, what is the first thing I see, a license plate bracket with the dealership's name on a paper plate mounted/drilled into my front bumper.

Which Bay Area dealership mounted the license plate bracket on your ZL1?

My ZL1 will also be delivered via courtesy delivery and I don't want to same thing to happen to mine if I can avoid it.