Tire swap article from Z28 to 1LE

[Cleancoupe]

It would have been more interesting if they had run it around a road course for comparison also.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._make_the_car/

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Cleancoupe

It would have been more interesting if they had run it around a road course for comparison also.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._make_the_car/

Nice find...They really need some time on a road course with both cars...

Here is my swap from 1LE to Z/28 wheels...I had Bridgestone at first but moved to a Hankook RS3...Not sure how I feel about the RS3 yet, but will be at Gingerman Raceway again Friday to try them out

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=369676

Matt

[markgws6]

Wow, the 1LE stops quicker than the Z/28 with it's tires!? I would not have guessed this from a car with those massive brakes. And only 35 pounds less eh? Hmm...

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by markgws6

Wow, the 1LE stops quicker than the Z/28 with it's tires!? I would not have guessed this from a car with those massive brakes. And only 35 pounds less eh? Hmm...

I noticed this as well.

I'm guessing the reason for this is the amount of heat in the brakes. I'm sure the Carbon Ceramics, when cold, will not stop as well as they do when they are warmed up. I'm sure for this brake test they did not get the brakes good and hot on both cars before testing them. And since the steel rotors with 1LE pads are designed as a compromise street/track pad they likely have more bite cold than the carbon ceramics do. With the extra grip of the Trofeo tires on the 1LE then the brakes can stop the car faster.

[2cnd chance]

The 1LE is great bang for the buck.

[LEO1LE]

Very informative article.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Nick S

I noticed this as well.

I'm guessing the reason for this is the amount of heat in the brakes. I'm sure the Carbon Ceramics, when cold, will not stop as well as they do when they are warmed up. I'm sure for this brake test they did not get the brakes good and hot on both cars before testing them. And since the steel rotors with 1LE pads are designed as a compromise street/track pad they likely have more bite cold than the carbon ceramics do. With the extra grip of the Trofeo tires on the 1LE then the brakes can stop the car faster.

I don't think that's the reason. Motortrend is pretty good on not skipping such steps, and they repeat the tests 10+ times anyway.

On the surface they used, 1LE's softer suspension or less engine weight might have fared better. Who knows? One would need to analyze all the data.

[White_SS/RS]

Wasn't it claimed that the z28 can pull -1.5g in decel? I sure as hell know the the 1le can't. Even With CTSV brakes I'm only hitting -1g and getting into the ABS a little. Although, my stops are from 100>40. 60>0 quite possibly is different.

[X25]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

Wasn't it claimed that the z28 can pull -1.5g in decel? I sure as hell know the the 1le can't. Even With CTSV brakes I'm only hitting -1g and getting into the ABS a little. Although, my stops are from 100>40. 60>0 quite possibly is different.

What tires do you use, though? Sticky tires, in my experience, can increase the threshold for ABS by a huge margin.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Nice find...They really need some time on a road course with both cars...

Here is my swap from 1LE to Z/28 wheels...I had Bridgestone at first but moved to a Hankook RS3...Not sure how I feel about the RS3 yet, but will be at Gingerman Raceway again Friday to try them out

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=369676

Matt

I wish we could convince you to try Trofeo Rs, Cup 2 tires, and the like, or even R888s from a budget standpoint.

[Billy10mm]

Gentlemen, you must remember that single-distance braking tests are not a test of brakes, but a test of tires and suspension (suspension as far as using all 4 tires as effectively as possible).

There isn't a vehicle manufactured today that cannot activate its anti-lock braking system if you stand on the pedal. In other words, EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE ON THE ROAD already has more braking power than it can use. Larger rotors do not provide shorter stopping distances, they provide greater surface area with which to dissipate heat. The big difference between great brakes and okay brakes is all about repeated performance. An Escalade's brakes are more than powerful enough to lock up all four corners, but put it on a track and it will overheat those brakes in no time.

So, it should be ENTIRELY expected that the 1LE will stop shorter with the Z28s wheels and tires because those wheels and tires offer more grip. End of story. Now, put Z28 wheels and tires on BOTH vehicles, and run those vehicles at full speed on the track, and the 1LE will cook its brakes and the Z28 won't. That is the difference. That is what you pay the money for.

Suspension also plays a meaningful role in braking, as too much dive at the front and/or lift at the back will put too much of the overall braking responsibility on only 2 tires (the fronts). Porsche 911s always do phenomenally in 60-0 and 70-0 braking tests despite having relatively skinny front tires (I think a 911S only runs a 245 width front tire) because the rear-engine setup helps keep more weight over the rear wheels while braking. This allows the rear tires to help stop the car moreso than the rear tires on almost any other car on the road today.

It always kills me when a car magazine or journalist is impressed with a car's stopping prowess and praises the brakes. Brakes are what stop you repeatedly, tires are what stop you once.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Billy10mm

Gentlemen, you must remember that single-distance braking tests are not a test of brakes, but a test of tires and suspension (suspension as far as using all 4 tires as effectively as possible).

There isn't a vehicle manufactured today that cannot activate its anti-lock braking system if you stand on the pedal. In other words, EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE ON THE ROAD already has more braking power than it can use. Larger rotors do not provide shorter stopping distances, they provide greater surface area with which to dissipate heat. The big difference between great brakes and okay brakes is all about repeated performance. An Escalade's brakes are more than powerful enough to lock up all four corners, but put it on a track and it will overheat those brakes in no time.

So, it should be ENTIRELY expected that the 1LE will stop shorter with the Z28s wheels and tires because those wheels and tires offer more grip. End of story. Now, put Z28 wheels and tires on BOTH vehicles, and run those vehicles at full speed on the track, and the 1LE will cook its brakes and the Z28 won't. That is the difference. That is what you pay the money for.

Suspension also plays a meaningful role in braking, as too much dive at the front and/or lift at the back will put too much of the overall braking responsibility on only 2 tires (the fronts). Porsche 911s always do phenomenally in 60-0 and 70-0 braking tests despite having relatively skinny front tires (I think a 911S only runs a 245 width front tire) because the rear-engine setup helps keep more weight over the rear wheels while braking. This allows the rear tires to help stop the car moreso than the rear tires on almost any other car on the road today.

It always kills me when a car magazine or journalist is impressed with a car's stopping prowess and praises the brakes. Brakes are what stop you repeatedly, tires are what stop you once.

So the confusion is not that 1LE stops better with those wheels, but rather 1LE with the Z/28 wheels stops even better than Z/28 with its own wheels. As you mentioned, that takes a very good suspension set-up besides anything else, and one would think DSSV dampers on the Z/28s are better tuned/matched to the chassis than any other suspension in Camaro family.

I still think lighter engine (and engine equipment up front) might have something to do with it..

[Spoolin]

Anyone with a Z/28 want to drive my 1LE around a road course with their Z/28 wheels & tires?

[Mark T]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The 1LE is great bang for the buck.

No doubt. And at roughly half the price too.