Camaro Still winning - Mustang sales not enough to sustain Flat Rock plant

[grocerygetter]

I don't want misfortune on a company as strong as Ford. I love the Mustangs as well. I respect what Ford has done and their business approach. I love my Camaro though.

[NicksVSix]

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

I don't want misfortune on a company as strong as Ford. I love the Mustangs as well. I respect what Ford has done and their business approach. I love my Camaro though.

I love Camaros, so much so that I don't think I would ever buy a Mustang. But 'Stangs are still bad ass cars IMO. I'd own a Mustang before I'd own a Porsche....I couldn't care less about speed.

I hope all 3 pony cars, Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers sell well. They're all bad ass cars.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ford? I don't know what they wanted to be selling. They've put money into the car to keep it fresh and added new powertrains, but those engines are available in other models including the Full Size Pickup (the biggest reason Ford is doing so well, btw). Maybe they are a bit low in their own volumes.

The 5.0 in the truck is not the same motor. It is based on the Mustang's motor but has a beefed up truck specific block and heads and a lower compression ratio so it would withstand truck use, this is from what I saw on Motorweek the other day. If i recall correctly from the show, It produces around 360 HP and 380 Lb ft of torque. Not as much as the Mustang does.

[28.]

Originally Posted by NicksVSix

I love Camaros, so much so that I don't think I would ever buy a Mustang. But 'Stangs are still bad ass cars IMO. I'd own a Mustang before I'd own a Porsche....I couldn't care less about speed.

I hope all 3 pony cars, Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers sell well. They're all bad ass cars.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

The 5.0 in the truck is not the same motor. It is based on the Mustang's motor but has a beefed up truck specific block and heads and a lower compression ratio so it would withstand truck use, this is from what I saw on Motorweek the other day. If i recall correctly from the show, It produces around 360 HP and 380 Lb ft of torque. Not as much as the Mustang does.

Isn't that like saying the 6.2 L in the Escalade isn't the same motor as what's in the Camaro. Or that the 6.2 L L99 isn't the same motor as the 6.2 L LS3?

Families of engines mean HUGE cost savings and shared development time. GM has several 6.2 L V8s that aren't quite the same as well but share a lot of the same fundamentals.

So my point was only that they didn't invest in the 5.0 to simply put it in 30,000 Mustangs. It has broader applications, even if some of them involve different cams or heads. I didn't mean to imply it was exactly the same as engine in the Mustang and the Pickup. Sorry.

[gbosh]

Having worked for a large production plant I am very familiar with what it takes too keep a large plant running and maintain a profit margin on the product produced there. Ford has taken a major hit by Mazda pulling out and going to Mexico and building a new plant there. Now back too the Ford plant having only one shift working is bad news as it takes lots of energy to keep robots and other systems running 24/7 along with things that need too be cooled and other things heated,plus some of the air compressors need to run and so for 16 hours the plant is using a very large amount of energy! This is a loss that can not be sustained over time,more money spent than profit coming in. Mustang is doomed if sales remain at current levels,but Ford may keep the plant running with the hope that sales will pickup with some new Mustang options.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by gbosh

Having worked for a large production plant I am very familiar with what it takes too keep a large plant running and maintain a profit margin on the product produced there. Ford has taken a major hit by Mazda pulling out and going to Mexico and building a new plant there. Now back too the Ford plant having only one shift working is bad news as it takes lots of energy to keep robots and other systems running 24/7 along with things that need too be cooled and other things heated,plus some of the air compressors need to run and so for 16 hours the plant is using a very large amount of energy! This is a loss that can not be sustained over time,more money spent than profit coming in. Mustang is doomed if sales remain at current levels,but Ford may keep the plant running with the hope that sales will pickup with some new Mustang options.

The S197 will not see an increase in sales over the next two years. The lowest Ford can go is about 45k before they start losing money. As I said before, Flatrock Mustangs have been one shift since 2008, as long as they sustain a 70k sales pace (and those are GTs) they are good to go. Ford may have needed Mazda to leave, if you look at the reports Mazda announced that they were leaving and then a few days later Ford announced a RHD Mustang.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by thePill

The S197 will not see an increase in sales over the next two years. The lowest Ford can go is about 45k before they start losing money. As I said before, Flatrock Mustangs have been one shift since 2008, as long as they sustain a 70k sales pace (and those are GTs) they are good to go. Ford may have needed Mazda to leave, if you look at the reports Mazda announced that they were leaving and then a few days later Ford announced a RHD Mustang.

Its also possible that Mazda leaving the plant has made Ford look at other markets to sell more Mustangs.

I still think that this is a great chance to produce a Lincoln on the Mustang platform, make a 4 and 2 door RWD model. This could be a surprise competitor to the up coming Cadillac ATS and the BMW 3 series/ Mercedes C class, and Audi A4. With the base engine being a 3.7L V-6 making 305BHP mated to either 6 speed auto or 6 speed manual gear boxes. And a optional performance version packing a 5.0L V-8 engine..........

They can call it the Lincoln MDK (murder death kill) model.

Even better this would be a vehicle with a starting price of $30,000 and a upper price limit of around $60,000 talk about profit per unit sold.

[Bumlbee]

Originally Posted by Inferno2SS

I also think the link to Transformers is a bit over stated. For me it was just a show case for one sweet looking car. It is a great advertising tool but only because people love the design of the vehicle so much.

Movies help car sales big time , look at the Smokey And Bandit Trans Am or the Knight Rider Trans Am . The Dealers were getting calls all the time wanting the Bandit Package , and even people asking for the KITT bumper (which GM never sold )

I think that The Transformer movie did help sales in a large way , from going to shows I know alot of owners that got a Camaro over another car because here kids wanted one . "And when my son gets my car , he wants to paint it like Bumblebee ".
The movie itself did 100X more impact then any single commercial or ad GM ran .

As for the Mustang sales ,almost everyone I know hates the new body style (10 & Up ) . I know a handful of guys who bought them used just to get the 05 to 09 body style . The only thing I like on the newer body style better is the door panels .( In my opinon anyway )

I think the body style change on the mustang hurt sales for Ford a fair bit , and help extra sales for the Camaro .

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Bumlbee

Movies help car sales big time , look at the Smokey And Bandit Trans Am or the Knight Rider Trans Am . The Dealers were getting calls all the time wanting the Bandit Package , and even people asking for the KITT bumper (which GM never sold )

I think that The Transformer movie did help sales in a large way , from going to shows I know alot of owners that got a Camaro over another car because here kids wanted one . "And when my son gets my car , he wants to paint it like Bumblebee ".
The movie itself did 100X more impact then any single commercial.

I agree the transformers movies have a great impact on recognition of the Camaro and it's sales. Just about every time I am out in ours someone asks me if I can get him to transform (most of the time it's from the adults).

[Caminsky]

I would never want the Stang to be discontinued (though I doubt it would in the foreseeable future). This decades long competition has pushed both Ford and Chevy to continually improve on their cars in order to "one up" the competition. I feel like if the Mustang ever went away, Chevy might become a little complacent with the Camaro. Sure there are other cars out the such as the Challenger, but the true rival to the Camaro will always be the Mustang.

[AngeloVEnforcer]

I wonder how Mustang enthusiasts felt in 2002? While the Mustang will never be discontinued, right now is a great time to be on the GM F-body side of this war. Let's face it, we have the hot, better, more popular product at the moment. Let's just bask for a minute................
Alright, let's start debating again!

[nester7929]

The 5.0 is selling great; ironically though, it's the V6 sales that keep the muscle car market alive. That's where the Camaro is making a killing right now. The enthusiasts buy up the hi-po versions within the first two years of a production runs, and after that it's mostly the secretary mobiles that are being sold.

Although it's cool that the Mustang has been around for so long, I think America is so saturated with V6 Mustangs that they just aren't going to sell as well as something that's only been around for a couple of years. Hell, I see far more 5th gen Camaros than I see 2010 Mustangs.

That being said, I really pride myself on saying my car was built in Michigan by a bunch of gravel-eating ****-mining Americans, and it'd be a damn shame for that plant to have to close down. C'mon, we can't let all American muscle get built in Canada!

[abaucom21]

First, hope Ford can add another model to their Flat Rock location as I hate to hear of one more person in the auto industry being laid off.
Second, I considered a 2011 Mustang but decided on the Camaro for a few basic reasons. Did not want a rear live axel driving on pot hole streets. Also, Camaro had steering wheel that was more adjustable than Mustang. Little differences yes, big difference in driver comfort.
Third, doubt most people that turn and stare at my Camaro know the HP, don't care about 0-60 times, g-forces going flat out in a corner, or any other differences between a Mustang or Camaro. They look because the styling is new, unique, and modern in an American way. It was the body style that first attracted me to the Camaro concept, and not the Transformer movies.
Last, I am an old fart and remember back in the day (LOL), when car styles changed big time about every 3 years. People bought new cars because of styling change. If you drove a 5-year old car back in the 50s or 60s, your car style just looked old in four years.
Ford has sucked the blood out of the popular 'retro' Mustang and to keep the attention of buyers they are long overdue for a major restyle (2014). If Camaro wants to keep up they need to move their restyle from 2015 to 2014 to compete with the Mustang.
Back in the Day, people traded every 3 years to have a more modern looking auto. It was all about style. I think the Camaro is popular because of body style, not about how fast it will turn, or how fast it will brake pulling into the grocery store parking lot.
Mustang's, Camaro's which are brand image autos that bring people into showrooms, need to offer new styling every 3-4 years, not every 6-9 years. I take care of my autos and still look stylish 10 years after purchase. My old fart brain indicates I will only buy another new car because styling looks more modern and unique. Perhaps, that is why most people are buying the current Camaro.
Suggest to GM, you want to compete with the restyled 2014 Mustang, introduce your restyled Camaro in 2014 and not 2015.
As for me, love my 2011 Camaro and only a very exciting new body style will bring me back to a GM showroom in 2014-15. Hate me if you wish, but I could care less how flat, and how fast, my Camaro can corner. I do care how the suspension cushions city street potholes.